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Originally posted by Ted Mosby...Architect: people the category is DEFINTIVE LOCKS that means if there is more than 2-3 in any given category they arent def locks
That's not true. Haven't you noticed that the Emmys are largely predictable? There are many more than 2 nominees in each category that are locks.
Originally posted by Ted Mosby...Architect: people the category is DEFINTIVE LOCKS that means if there is more than 2-3 in any given category they arent def locks
That's not true. Haven't you noticed that the Emmys are largely predictable? There are many more than 2 nominees in each category that are locks.
I completely agree. I also would like to see 24 win best drama again. It really is more dramatic than Mad Men.
Originally posted by Ted Mosby...Architect: people the category is DEFINTIVE LOCKS that means if there is more than 2-3 in any given category they arent def locks
That's not true. Haven't you noticed that the Emmys are largely predictable? There are many more than 2 nominees in each category that are locks.
I completely agree. I also would like to see 24 win best drama again. It really is more dramatic than Mad Men.
Because more drama certainly means more deserving.
With voters returning to the old system, adn with things on the tv landscape being quite different than four years ago, it is not going to be as straight across the line as people are assuming. There no certain locks in either supporting drama catagories.
Congrats Kristen! All the PD haters can (SPOILER ALERT) Suck it!
Originally posted by Brilliance inmorbid: Because more drama certainly means more deserving...
Yeah, kinda wacky, but I think that's why they call it BEST DRAMA Series.
(The one with the most drama in it... you see...)
Oh, and also, equally wacky, why the BEST COMEDY Series tends to be the one that brings the funny, over the ones that are more esoteric, like Entourage or Californication.
Just sayin...
This message has been edited. Last edited by: MicheBel,
Just a show that a lot of people like and gets a lot of good "buzz"?
For me, it's more about that whatever universe they set up, they stay true to, and expand upon in a believable way. Every episode should have a beginning, middle and end, and also work within the greater fabric of what the season is trying to do.
In my experience, that ends up being the shows that provide the most bang for the buck every time you watch. The ones with lots of drama in them. The ones where you wanna know what the heck is happening next.
So, yeah, MOST, in this case, does equal BEST.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: MicheBel,
Originally posted by MicheBel: How then do you define BEST DRAMA?
Just a show that a lot of people like and gets a lot of good "buzz"?
For me, it's more about that whatever universe they set up, they stay true to, and expand upon in a believable way. Every episode should have a beginning, middle and end, and also work within the greater fabric of what the season is trying to do.
This, more or less, explains your disdain for Damages at least. Damages really doesn't have a beginning, middle, or end to any of its episodes. It just keeps moving. But at the same time, perhaps, like Six Feet Under or even The Sopranos, they're trying to say that events unfold randomly in life, they don't have a neat little beginning, middle and end. Of course, Damages really isn't a philosophical or social commentary type of show, so who knows. Either way, I have to say that even though I myself am a huge Mad Men fan, I can appreciate your criticisms and your willingness to stick to your guns, especially with 24, which I think is taken for granted at times.
I wasn't aware I had "disdain for Damages." I suffered through all of the first season, haven't yet forced myself to see the Second, except the first episode. So, no, the reason I HATE Damages has nothing to do with it not having a beginning, middle and end in each episode.
It has much more to do with the reckless cavalier disdain the show has for human life and lives. Characters do things that are completely out there wacky, wackier than that polar bear on Lost, in fact--all in the name of a big twist, a big manipulative reveal. Damages can eat my shorts.
Damages has "random events"? Are we watching the same show? Let's rephrase. Every single thing Glenn Close's character did in Season 1 was manipulative and thought out and planned. From what I saw in the first episode, Season 2 is about Rose Byrne's character getting revenge.
So we have two scheming manipulative people who are untrustworthy and untruthful to each other, who kill on a whim with no repercussions, and we are supposed to ROOT FOR THEM? Add in Tate Donovan's character, who also has some kind of shady manipulations going on...
It's just not my idea of fun (or entertaining) to watch people manipulate each other with murderous intent.
Even a show like The Sopranos, which, obviously had a lot of murders going on, it paid it off better. You knew they were gangsters. Gangsters kill, and sometimes strive for more power in their own little gangland. The stretches were backed up by the real.
That is not what I find in Damages. AT ALL.
I'm not saying EVERY show has to be "philosophical" or have some kind of "social commentary" but for my money, those are certainly the ones which deserve the label BEST DRAMA. Ones that in addition to what they are doing on screen make you think, perhaps, about your own little place in the Universe.
Something like Friday Night Lights, where its characters, though flawed, are striving to do the right thing (most of the time).
Something like Mad Men, which places the ad world of the early 60s against the backdrop of the larger picture, and makes us wonder exactly how we got where we are now.
Something like Lost, which at its core, helps us reflect on how everyone is interconnected, and though it may seem like there is always an "Us" and a "Them", really it's all of us together in this.
Something like 24, which dares to take on the problems of the world stage, whether it's greedy corporation heads building their own armies, or people in power using countries in Africa for their own gains, or people in situations where they have to decide if using torture in that moment is ok, or not.
All of those shows make me THINK afterwards. Damages just makes me think of changing the channel.
(And yes, 24 didn't even make our Gold Derby list. I gotta believe people here just aren't watching it.)
But thank you for your kind words, taloson. I appreciate it.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: MicheBel,
What I meant by random events is that there isn't really a theme or anything that makes the episodes significant. And as for the whole manipulation aspect, there's a huge audience of people who very much enjoy watching people "outwit, outplay, and outlast" each other, if you know what I mean! Even if they aren't manipulating with murderous intent, the contestants on Survivor are still doing whatever it takes to get that money. I personally find Damages fascinating in its way of showing how ruthless and almost animalistic people can be while also keeping up appearances in high ranking jobs. I also like that there's no inherent "good guy". They're all terrible people in their own rights so it's an interesting (although not entirely original) angle to see evil fighting evil.
And a final comment about 24, I'm a big fan of the show but I still wouldn't say it deserves Best Drama Series. Although Cherry Jones and Annie Wersching were GREAT additions to the show this year and the domestic terrorist angle was great, I just don't think it reached that AMAZING level that Season 5 did. If any show can give Mad Men a run for its money this year, it's Lost. Lost had a fantastic season, arguably the best since its first. (admittedly, I'll always have a soft spot for Season 3) Talk about a show that's constantly taking risks, and yet always pulling them off seamlessly. Regardless of Emmys, I have no doubt in my mind that Lost will be remembered far longer than Mad Men, and that's not a knock at Mad Men, but if the Emmys know what they're doing, they'll recognize that this type of show comes around once in a lifetime. I'm pretty sure they'll reward Lost for what I'm sure will be its fantastic final season.
LOL The Damages producers would probably be ****ed to hear you say that there's "no theme." hahaha "or anything significant" to the episodes.
I think it's different in Survivor, which I used to love, because it's in a GAME format. The worst things they do there is vote people off and eat nasty bugs.
Glenn Close's character tried to MURDER Rose Byrne's character in Season 1. You kinda don't walk away from that. Or forgive the person. Or go back to work for them.
And yeah, the whole "evil vs. evil" thing? Not my bag. It's like film school 101. And then, just when you have it all figured out, in pops Evil number 3 for the big twist at the end of the season. Blah.
And, as you said, IT'S BEEN DONE.
MUCH more interesting, though more challenging to write, is the setup of Friday Night Lights. The two leads are GOOD people, who strive to do good in every situation. And they get ALL kinds of roadblocks thrown in their way, but believable ones.
I find it much more rewarding to watch characters who struggle through situtations which are challenging, and still come out doing right (by their spouse, their family, their team, their town) in the end.
I WANT a battle of Good vs. Evil. Even as much as I love Kiefer Sutherland's battles in 24, and they keep me on the edge of my seat, I do worry about his humanity. The way he tortures, kills, cuts off people's ears, whatever, with little compunction. That's why it was so refreshing this season.
The character of Renee Walker started the season (that's Annie Wershing) as a straight-laced FBI agent. She was on the side of right, and that's that. Throughout the season, she got to see more of Jack Bauer's world, and why he did the things he did. She really went through an emotional wringer (which is why I'm so rooting for her to get a nomination) this season.
She kept trying to do the right thing, keeping her moral compass intact, and kept falling down (emotionally). She even took Jack to task a few times. Which is why the payoff in the finale was so resounding. Because you'd seen her struggles all along.
You already know that Jack does what he does, we had several seasons of seeing "how far he would go." But her character continually surprised us. And stayed believable. Because, as 24 tells us, there is right and there is RIGHT.
I think I would agree with you that Season 5 was its best. I still think this one is Emmy-worthy.
I also agree that Lost had a phenomenal season. All season long, I was thinking that Lost was going to be the one taking home the Emmy. It wasn't until comparing the finales side by side that 24 just seemed SO much better.
I would love it if 24 wins this year, and Lost wins for its final season. Cause you know they are gonna just knock you off your chair with the final stuff.
In my estimation, it's still Lost vs. 24. Mad Men can just sit down. They were great. They had a great season (not as good as the first one), but they are nowhere in the same league as what Lost and 24 did this year, IMHO. Or, for that matter, what Friday Night Lights is doing (I'm midway through watching this season).
Originally posted by MicheBel: How then do you define BEST DRAMA?
Just a show that a lot of people like and gets a lot of good "buzz"?
For me, it's more about that whatever universe they set up, they stay true to, and expand upon in a believable way. Every episode should have a beginning, middle and end, and also work within the greater fabric of what the season is trying to do.
In my experience, that ends up being the shows that provide the most bang for the buck every time you watch. The ones with lots of drama in them. The ones where you wanna know what the heck is happening next.
So, yeah, MOST, in this case, does equal BEST.
I agree with the second paragraph but not the first.
I do concur, however, that "Damages" has always been overrated from the jump. Its first season was fun, but it was needlessly convoluted and silly. The destination was not worth such a ridiculous journey. The cartoonishly yet ironicless evil characters and the weak acting by Rose Byrne was heightened even more in the mess that was season one.
Congrats Kristen! All the PD haters can (SPOILER ALERT) Suck it!
I'm sorry but someone complaining about Damages and then saying 24 should win doesn't make sense to me. Nothing that happened on Damages was any more ridiculous than the Tony flip/flopping this season (or the fact that people were so easily able to break into the white house...or a number of other plots). Up till the point where Tony flipped "bad" again I was enjoying the season and was able to put some of the plot holes behind me, but that pretty much ruined the season for me.
And if the plot for Damages is film school 101 than 24 is remedial.
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G'Day, I don't perscribe to the more drama is better drama because great art and great stories can come from both the smallest and biggest places. Also the term better drama is so vauge (can range from anything to a bickering husband and wife to nuclear warfare).
I even don't think that more dramatic is better drama as being able to incorporate smart well written humor into a drama can be a sign of a great drama.
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Originally posted by jss0058: I'm sorry but someone complaining about Damages and then saying 24 should win doesn't make sense to me. Nothing that happened on Damages was any more ridiculous than the Tony flip/flopping this season (or the fact that people were so easily able to break into the white house...or a number of other plots). Up till the point where Tony flipped "bad" again I was enjoying the season and was able to put some of the plot holes behind me, but that pretty much ruined the season for me.
And if the plot for Damages is film school 101 than 24 is remedial.
All I know is that I bought the stuff that happened on 24, as a viewer, this year. Some of Tony's actions were far-fetched, granted. The breaking into the White House from underneath, kind of a stretch, agreed.
But I could allow myself to suspend the disbelief. The characters on Damages just are ruthless to each other with no apparent conscience or heart underneath. I don't buy that. No one's that black or white with evil.
MicheBel, did you get to watch many episodes of Damages this season. It allowed Patty Hewes to become very humanized. In particular the episode "They Had to Tweeze That Out of My Kidney" was spectacular. If Glenn Close submits it, or even "Trust Me" she is probably going to repeat. My next comment is going to upset a lot of people but those episodes are just as good as "A Night to Remember" IMO.
While we only get to see a one-sided character for most of the people on the show, I think it has always been good at showing how vindictive but also how human both Patty and Ellen can be.
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Season 2 of Damages failed to wow the audiences with unnecessarily complicated storylines and too many boring minor characters. And the big case of the season was very disappointing.
But character-wise, I think it was very successful, especially with the two leads. It was not about Good vs Evil, but it was about people being capable of good and evil. We got to explore another side of these characters and it was very human and real.
Glenn Close was such an acting goddess, her facial expressions were priceless. And the scenes between her and Rose Byrne were all memorable. Their relationship was like Mean Girls or The Devil Wears Prada dynamics and it was really entertaining.
Yeah I thought season 2 was really good (but not as good as season 1). The plot did drag a little...especially in the middle. But when it was good it was VERY good. I think it did an excellent job of making the characters more human (as others have said)...it showed more sides to Patty & Ellen. I wouldn't call either of them black & white with evil...even more so after season 2.
If we are talking about black/white & evil/good...I think there are more examples of that on 24 then on Damages.
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FYC-Album of the Year: Maxwell's BLACKsummers'night
