Originally posted by MARKPGH: For those of you who are complaining that Y&R should be asamed of themselves for not showing Adam and Rafe kissing or in bed....i say rent some porn and relieve yourselves.
Amen! People will never be pleased. I suspect that if Y&R eventually shows the gay kiss - which I believe will happen - the same people are going to complain that Y&R did not show anal penetration on screen.
To Crystal's point, I actually think Y&R is doing a great job of catering to their older viewers, by being the only show that consistently honours family history and showcasing veterans. While Y&R needs more meat for their African American characters, it has also come a long way in integrating these characters to the larger canvas, whereas Bill Bell always kept them segregated.
And lastly, in just two short months, the show has demonstrated that they are taking an entirely different and MODERN approach to the gay storyline:
1) Rafe and Philip came out like it was not a big deal. That was the first sign.
2) Adam faking gayness to get away with stuff. Incredibly politically correct. Not.
3) The first kiss wasn't even shown. The second kiss - which Nikki witnessed - showed a bit more. Like I said, it's all building up to anal penetration.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: survivorkylie,
Originally posted by survivorkylie: Amen! People will never be pleased. I suspect that if Y&R eventually shows the gay kiss - which I believe will happen - the same people are going to complain that Y&R did not show anal penetration on screen.
That's insulting on so many different levels.
Yes, you're both right. That's what we really want. We're not talking about fairness. We're not talking about hypocrisy. We're not talking about courting gay viewers and then half assing the story. No, we only want anal penetration at 12:30P.M. You two have found us out!!! It's odd that anger over a non-kiss somehow leads to wanting anal penetration on the soap.
quote:
Originally posted by survivorkylie:To Crystal's point, I actually think Y&R is doing a great job of catering to their older viewers, by being the only show that consistently honours family history and showcasing veterans. While Y&R needs more meat for their African American characters, it has also come a long way in integrating these characters to the larger canvas, whereas Bill Bell always kept them segregated.
They do show their veteran characters which is commendable, but the storytelling is more akin to PASSIONS than YR. The storytelling method is what is alienating some viewers--old as well as young.
quote:
1) Rafe and Philip came out like it was not a big deal. That was the first sign.
A recurring character comes out to his friend who is never seen again AND he disappears for weeks. Yes, not a big deal; not a big deal at all.
ATWT had Hunter kissing his mother AND sister. And OLTL had Marty making love to her rapist. So it is completely unacceptable for Y&R to skirt around showing Adam and Rafe kissing.
And yes - Passions did do alot of things for shock value - but we actually SAW these things and weren't just told about them and guess what? No one barely flinched!
This message has been edited. Last edited by: syrus80,
Muhney is interviewed over on afterelton. Here's a snippet from the interview:
"When you leave something to the imagination, you give the viewer the opportunity to fill in the blank. However, in the future, those blanks are going to be filled in by what you see on screen."
Originally posted by Crystal: Muhney is interviewed over on afterelton. Here's a snippet from the interview:
"When you leave something to the imagination, you give the viewer the opportunity to fill in the blank. However, in the future, those blanks are going to be filled in by what you see on screen."
There you go!
And to your point, yes, Rafe went nowhere for a while after he came out. But then again, that's symptomatic of Y&R's overall storytelling style - and not just with the gay storyline.
But I think it's still wise for them to take it slow with this story. It's unchartered territory for them. I'll stop right here, because we clearly have our set opinions. :-)
It's sadly ironic that the three soaps we can't stop mentioning here are Passions, GL, and ATWT, two of which are cancelled and the other one probably on its way. Losing their position at the top of the ratings board is surely a huge concern of the show, and I think the inclusion of gay characters/storylines was more about including and representing their existing audience than trying to draw in a who trove of new viewers. No one thinks there are any new viewers to be had. The shows are just trying to keep and please the ones they have. (Well, some shows.) I do have some understanding for the fear that audiences will be turned off by seeing two men kiss.
Saying that the same people who don't want to see two men kiss don't want to see any gay characters at all is pretty absurd. It may not be a matter of viewers turning the channel in disgust so much as finding more interest elsewhere. All other things being equal, I'd watch a show where two men are or might be kissing over one where they aren't because I'm a gay man and that interests me. Can't that logic work the other way without it being labeled bigotry? Can't you see a viewer who has no aversion to seeing men kiss change to a station where he's more likely to see a man kiss a woman?
After watching yesterday's Y&R, I did think they should have shown Adam and Rafe kiss, and it especially drew attention to the fact that they did not during the shot where Nikki comes in. I'd felt last time that not showing the kiss played well into the surprise factor, but this time it just seemed like avoidance. I think the show is trying to write to the biggest majority and protect its ratings, which I understand, but I'm glad this has become a big issue, so the execs know how people feel about it.
And I'm glad Michael Muhney says we'll eventually see some stuff on screen. I don't have to go for the porn after all!
I also think its interesting to point out that the characters won't even say "We had sex" or even "We made love" (a phrase that makes me wanna gag no matter who is saying it, but is quite popular on soaps). They allude to it by saying things like "what we did" or "what happened between us".
This message has been edited. Last edited by: zackfins,
Posts: 6115 | Location: Florida | Registered: July 05, 2006
Can we please not condescend to each other in this thread? This is directed at those who have belittled the opinions of me and Crystal by claiming that all we want is to be aroused by graphic sex. This is not about watching graphic sex on daytime television, and I think we all know that, even if we disagree on Y&R's approach to these storylines thus far. To suggest that our interest is so prurient and shallow insults our integrity.
"A movie is not good because it arrives at conclusions you share, or bad because it does not. A movie is not about what it is about. It is about how it is about it: about the way it considers its subject matter, and about how its real subject may be quite different from the one it seems to provide." - Roger Ebert, from the introduction to "Awake in the Dark" (2006)
Originally posted by 742: Can we please not condescend to each other in this thread? This is directed at those who have belittled the opinions of me and Crystal by claiming that all we want is to be aroused by graphic sex. This is not about watching graphic sex on daytime television, and I think we all know that, even if we disagree on Y&R's approach to these storylines thus far. To suggest that our interest is so prurient and shallow insults our integrity.
I apologize to both you and Crystal if my comments have been condescending. Clearly, there is disagreement about the approach. But on the bright side, it's nice to see that people are getting passionate about the story.
It's not just a problem at Y&R though either. Rafe is a doormat for Adam and not a real character. Luke and Noah are not kissing or even hugging anymore. Whenever one of them is upset, they pat each other on the back. They are never on. The plot points go from A to Z without any explanation. Olivia and Natalia on GL are a mess right now and haven't even shared a real kiss.
hogan sheffer said amc's ratings didnt go up when bianca came out and that he liked to steer clear of controversy. this in 2002 when he was at atwt. and now he is on this writing team, and if bell is a conservative well you can see with hogan and her combined and y&r being the no.1 soap why they may need to slowly tell this story to see how ratings respond. i guess they were in the dark with rianca on amc and what they did.
