Crystal posted a point about how gay subject matter causes a stir but misogynistic material is ignored, or accepted as routine. It inspired me to start this thread, where we can act as watchdogs and note and comment on depictions of violence, victimization, and degradation of women on all soaps. (Given the state of the medium, I expect to reach 100 replies by Tuesday.)

And if the thread catches on, maybe Nelson can publish it, or link to it, since his voice carries a lot farther in the industry than ours do.

I'll start with one:

- OLTL's Stacy stripping down to her bra and panties for a man who doesn't want her. And at first I didn't notice this point, because honestly she had it coming, but someone else pointed out how ugly it was to have Rex call her a whore when he at one point was having sex with both Lindsay Rappaport and her daughter Jen, and more recently left his wife Adriana for the woman he impregnated as a teenager.

This is not used much anymore, PTL, but the rape-redemption plot device is/was horribly misogynistic. Julia Santos, Marty Saybrooke, and Kit Fisher are three of the many women that suffered thru this awful story point.

I'll just copy and paste what I posted in my own thread about the misogyny on Y&R...

Today's scenes between Deacon and Amber were some of the most offensive crap I've ever seen on daytime. They way he forced her into sex, yelled at her to put on a trashy piece of lingerie, and the way he demanded she get on the bed, while she was in tears and Daniel was overhearing it on the phone. This reminded me of the Sami/EJ rape crap that Sheffer pulled at DAYS, I see he never learns from his mistakes.

How a woman like Maria Arena Bell who leads this show lets so much victimization of women occur on this show is shameful and degrading. These writers should be fired for this crap.

Here's a list of women currently being victimized in other stories on Y&R currently. This was complied by posters at SON:

- We have Ashley being gaslighted and being coerced into losing her mind by Adam.

- Patty Jane is literally crazy over Jack.

- Both Sharon and Phyllis have gone nuts over Nick, and they never learn. They're both obsessed with a guy who constantly treats them like crap and who constantly leaves them for one another.

- Even Lily's cancer is another form of female victimization.

- Jill going broke and forced to do nails again, when we know she's better off as the bitch diva we know she is.

- Chloe is still hung up on Billy, though he treats her like crap.

- Ever since Mac came back, almost her entire existence has been based on Billy.

- And now, Amber is coerced into sex with Deacon on his "terms" as he yells and makes demands at her.

- Nikki being non existent.

- Heather being used by Victor Jr.

- Tyra throwing herself at Neil.

- Colleen being exploited by Glo & Jeff.

- Victoria being assaulted in an alley.

Y&R is currently one big hot mess, and this just adds to that.

quote:

Originally posted by MediaFan:
- Even Lily's cancer is another form of female victimization.

I have to take issue with this one. If told correctly this story could do a world of good. Younger women are getting various forms of cancer at higher rates these days and this story could touch even more people since it's involving a young black female.

quote:

Originally posted by FishBiscuit:

quote:

Originally posted by MediaFan:
- Even Lily's cancer is another form of female victimization.

I have to take issue with this one. If told correctly this story could do a world of good. Younger women are getting various forms of cancer at higher rates these days and this story could touch even more people since it's involving a young black female.

Unfortunately, it seems like Lily's cancer is a mere plot point on the road to reuniting the over-pimped Lily and Cane pairing.

Cancer is almost an afterthought in this story after Lily and Cane's realtonship and why they should reunite.

Starr stripping down to seduce Schuyler. Gigi stripping down to sell herself to Kyle so she can save her son. Tea and Blair fighting over a rapist and murderer. Women being kidnapped and killed every few months when they want to spice up the ratings.

Paul humiliating Meg in a scene so despicable that I can't believe it made it to air. Aired a few months ago.

The rape of Brooke Logan and the abuse storyline with Stephanie which added nothing to their characters because it was quickly forgotten. It was only used as Emmy bait. The constant sexualisation of Brooke. I don't watch the show, and I can predict what will happen.

I would agree that Lily's cancer being a form of misogyny because they emphasising that Lily will not be able have kids. She even said that she could never be a real wife. It's that aspect that is offensive.

The fact that every woman on GH falls at the altar of Sonny's penis. They are dumbed down, abused, shot, etc. to prop up his character.

Forgot to add another one: women who constantly say they aren't real women until they have children.

I remember GL punishing Annie by making her unable have to children.

Great discussion topic guys!

Mike Goldberg's take on 7/23 OLTL:

SPOTLIGHT: ONE LIFE TO LIVE's Misogyny
Friday, July 24, 2009 Posted by Michael Goldberg (We Love Soaps)

I am all for a good catfight on soaps when two STRONG, beautiful women go at it and tear into each other. If someone steals my baby and makes me think she is dead, I'm going to cut someone. I also know if I go to an event and someone is wearing the exact same outfit I'm wearing, I'm out for blood! Think of the entertaining fights that ensued between Paulina and Vicky on ANOTHER WORLD and the legendary battle between Vanessa and Nola on GUIDING LIGHT.

However, on Thursday's episode of ONE LIFE TO LIVE, Blair and Téa physically attacked each other all for the "love" of Todd Manning. I don't believe for one second that these two strong, independent, beautiful women would still be affected by Todd. Todd is a vicious, sociopathic rapist. He treats both women with contempt and they keep coming back for more. Who is the target audience for the show? Has a focus group been conducted and it was found out that women 18-49 love to fight each other to see who gets to have sex first with an unrepentant rapist? As a long term viewer, it's insulting to watch Kassie DePaiva and Florencia Lozano have to act out these fight scenes.

If the characters of Blair and Téa are to be salvaged, both need to move in new directions. Blair and John may not have set the world on fire but it was an example of Blair realizing how toxic Todd was and that she could have something different. Téa is an intelligent, cunning, lawyer. There isn't anyone other than Todd for her?

As for Todd, clearly his new love interest is meant to be Stacy Morasco. That is one "woman" who is perfect for him! An added bonus is that Trevor St. John can offer some acting "help" to Ms. Hunt.

What do you think ONE LIFE TO LIVE fans? Is the Téa-Todd-Blair triangle entertaining to you? Is Todd the man of your dreams and worth fighting for? Sound off!

The whole Amber/Deacon storyline dissapoints me more than anything, b/c it's Hogan's storyline and the fact that he did that business on Days and obviously didn't give a care what the fan reaction was b/c he is using that same plot on Y&R. And I am w/u guys that the gay storylines hav these idoits all a twitter, but the stories that they tell w/their WOMEN is the quality television the viewers want. And I have to say that I thought the MJ character on Y&R was great fun, but when she put that baby in the hospital on purpose all for the love of a man who hurt her in the past, I now have issues w/it, even though I still find the character and actress so appealing.

ATWT's hooker storyline with Emily was despicable, especially the scenes of Emily being tossed around on a bed by one of her clients. Kelley Hensley actually had to act these scenes out while she was pregnant!!!!

Months later, upon Dusty's return from the dead, he tossed her around on a bed too and he was privy to Emily's secret life as a hooker!!!

quote:

ATWT's hooker storyline with Emily was despicable, especially the scenes of Emily being tossed around on a bed by one of her clients. Kelley Hensley actually had to act these scenes out while she was pregnant!!!!

That was her Emmy tape and some people wanted her to win. I think she acted it as well as she possibly could, given that the reel was glorified snuff film, trying to titillate with lots of T&A, and then tossing her around for the sake of cheap melodrama.

And then TPTB had the f*cking nerve to turn her sister Alison into an amateur porn star at the same time? Why? No reason. The treatment of those women might be the most misogynistic thing I've seen on a soap opera, and that's coming from someone who watches GH. It was even worse than OLTL's horrid rapemance, because at least Marty got to take her power back from Todd at the end. ATWT's Emily and Alison have yet to recover, and probably never will.

Slight correction:

GH's Text Message Killer might be the most misogynistic storyline on a soap. Here you have a young man, Diego, angry at Sonny and Jason for the death of his father. Sonny and Jason indeed murdered his father, so fair enough. But who does he decide to punish? Leticia, an innocent nanny; Emily, Jason's innocent sister, who the show had already inflicted rape and breast cancer upon; and Georgie, possibly the nicest female character on the show, played by someone who should be a major rising star in the industry, Lindze Letherman. They were not just murdered. They were viciously strangled. And he tried to do the same thing to Sam. That'll show 'em! Punish the innocent women for the vile crimes of Sonny and Jason, and leave them alive to kill other men and impregnate other women.

I have never forgiven GH for this disgusting storyline, and I don't think I ever will. How could I? The powers that be don't think they did anything wrong.

GH

Spixie being the most offensive of them all cause I'm sure its pretty much Guza livin out his perverted fantasy HS Fantasy.

Maxie degrading herself to get Spin's friendship & into her life back including a fake robbery on her.

Maxie willing to fake a sexual relationship to keep Spin in her life.

Maxie claim she die if he left her for another women.Or beggin him for sex constanly.

Maxie lettin Spin emotional blackmail her wth gettin his friendship back all cause she was attracted to Johnny in a way that she wasn't wth him instead of havin enough sense to tell him if he can't accept her attraction or wanting to be wth someone & have his friendship to take his friendship & shove it.

This was before Maxie sudden 180 in suddenly being sexual attracted to him after being forced to be honest when he asked.

Claudia anything havin to do wth Sonny but particular the scene where she got on her knees I can't stand her but that was disgusting.Along wth pokin a hole in a condem.

I'm not sure if Necca Nik/Becca qualify for this area but there pretty disgusting & offensive.

The recent Olivia & Sonny Scenes not last week but the week before where he was I believe tryin to forceably come onto her I didn't see the scenes but there was a huge uproar about it.

YR May be really bad I don't watch but I'm sure noone can come close or touch GH when it comes to Misogony Area.

B&B is another soap who can claim to this. One name sumes it up: Brooke Logan!

Here's Sara Bibel's take on 7/24 Y&R

History Repeating
I hate it when, soon after I write a blog entry, a show does something that makes me reconsider my opinion. Friday morning, my ode to the wonders of Y&R’s Amber and Deacon was published. A mere few hours later their dynamic was ruined by what I will call Sami and EJ 2: Electric Near-Rape-a-loo. What I hoped was going to be a fun, sexy Indecent Proposal type story, with Amber pretending she was only sleeping with Deacon to help Daniel while her attraction to him grew. Instead, Deacon was brutal and cruel, ordering Amber to wear lingerie and treating her like a piece of meat. The experience was clearly an ordeal for Amber. He also made sure Daniel knew exactly what was going on by tricking him into listening in by phone. Though this echoed one of Deacon’s storylines on The Bold & The Beautiful, when he slept with Bridget it was entirely consensual.

The scene was so similar to Sami and EJ’s infamous sex scene on Days of Our Lives. Once again, a man forced a woman to have degrading sex in order to save the man she loved. This time, at least, the man was not holding a gun. Amber did consent to have sex with Deacon. She just didn’t consent to it being a disgusting, debasing experience. The scene was blocked so that it ended with Deacon holding Amber’s wrists down, making it seem even more like an assault. I cannot imagine why co-headwroter Hogan Sheffer would recreate the same storyline that so many DOOL viewers hated. Did he learn nothing from that show’s plunging ratings? This is supposed to be entertainment for women. Sex based on blackmail and manipulation is part of the genre. It’s fun when the attraction between the characters is mutual. No woman finds being forced into sex romantic. Yet daytime keeps presenting the victimization of women as titillating, with few consequences for the men who violate them. Whether it’s One Life to Live’s Todd or General Hospital’s Sonny, the message is that if the guy is a good looking rebel he can get away with anything. Y&R used to be the one show with a zero tolerance for sexual assault. As popular as both Eddie Cibrian and Rick Hearst were as Matt Clark, the character was a rapist and was therefore written off. Michael was also written off for years while his character served a realistically long prison sentence for attempted rape. Perhaps Y&R started down a slipperly slope when it chose to redeem Kevin, who was originally intended t be a short term psycho. Still, the show shyed away from giving Kevin a love interest for a long time because of his treatment of Lily and Colleen, before giving him a rather asexual pairing with a woman who has her own history of violence. Unfortunately, now the show seems to be becoming as misogynist as every other show in daytime.

Someone mentioned Lily's cancer on Y&R being misogynistic. I was dubious, but then I gave it more thought. There seems to be a disparity there.

Count up in your head all the female characters who have been stricken with a life-threatening disease in the last several years on soaps: GH's Alexis and Emily, ATWT's Lucinda, B&B's Felicia, Y&R's Lily. I'm probably forgetting someone. Now count up all the men ... Anyone?

Perhaps it is my faulty memory, but I struggle to think of a single man who has been afflicted with a life-threatening disease as a storyline. GL's Phillip is dying of something-or-other now, but who else? Susceptibility to illness seems to be a strictly feminine frailty on soaps.

Bo had something wrong w/his pancreas last yr. and it was his daughter who had to give part of her pancreas to survive, but she ended up not being able to have children.

Ah gotta love this passive agressive mindset of this industry.

But I will defend this story in particular, b/c it brought it back to how Chelsea killed Zack, and as a viewer I finally saw the girl being truly remoresful for what she did and how she and Hope let that tragedy let them start over. It was really moving to watch.

Good points on these last two posts. Men rarely get the kind of life-threatening illnesses that women do, or even pseudo-life-threatening illnesses. Remember the disease that was killing ATWT's Carly, before the doctor realized what she had was curable with antibiotics? With cancer stories, I think of the women mentioned above and GL's Reva. It also seems like a coma is generally an effective way to get rid of a female character but not a male. ATWT's Rosanna, OLTL's Evangeline, and DAYS' Jan come to mind. (I may be missing a lot of coma victims though, since usually going into a coma means people aren't going to be mentioning you anymore.)

OLTL's Nora was also in a coma for a while. I think Hillary B. Smith was in contract negotiations.

Also note the death exits of male and female characters. Men often die or are presumed dead in the midst of heroism (AMC's Leo, Y&R's Brad, GL's Jeffrey). Women more often die or are presumed dead in the midst of being victimized (i.e. the Satin Slayer, the Text Message Killer, OLTL's Talia and Marty, and so on, and so on, and so on).