I talked briefly about the Corbin Fisher website in another thread, and it got me thinking about how gay characters are written on soaps and films. On the CF porn site, "straight" college guys discover the joys of gay sex. Nearly all the guys claim to be straight, and their bios always talk about girlfriends, how much they love having sex with these girlfriends, etc. They start off with a solo and a guy/girl scene, then to a scene where they top, and then it's the holy grail of gay porn: the bottom scene. The pretence of straightness is always there, and there's the underlying theme that gay men breaking in straight men is sexier to gay men than having sex with actual gay men.

You seem to have the same progression in the gay characters. They talk about how much they love women. They have sex with women. Then, they discover they have feelings for men. Then, they are gay, but they are gay ina tentative way. They don't want to be gay too fast. If they are lucky, they'll have sex within a year. I'm sure there are men who go through these steps, but why must nearly all the gay characters on daytime be like this?? Do the gay men on this site enjoy this type of thing? As a straight woman, I become annoyed with this. I want my gay characters to be gay. I don't want them having sex with scuzzy strippers or the sisters of men who read gay. When an annoying waitress kisses them, I want the men to break away first. I want them lusting after, flirting with, and having sex with gay men. I feel like daytime is saying, "Gay men are only gay when they've slept with women and realized it wasn't for them." They have no concept of gay men who knew they were gay, and it was not about rejecting women. It was about wanting men. I'd really like to get input from the gay men here. Am I just being overly sensitive?

To answer your question, yes, a lot of soap operas would be better these days if they were strictly porn. At the very least, the writing would improve.

To be serious though, I think you are being a little sensitive about the issue. I don't remember ATWT's Luke having flirtations with any women before his character came out. And Y&R's Rafe came out matter-of-factly, without any indication so far that he gave girls a try first. But if they do try to be with women first, it reflects what I think is a broad, though not universal, truth about gay men. Current society, even at its most liberal, approaches heterosexuality as the default, assumed until proven otherwise. When parents give birth to a baby girl, they don't fantasize about one day walking her down the aisle during her same-sex commitment ceremony or holding the grandchild she conceived through IVF. They may by all means be accepting if she comes out, but being gay is still considered the exception, not the rule.

With those pressures being what they are, it's no surprise a gay person growing up might question his sexual feelings. He lives in a world that assumes straightness, so he might try on straightness just to see if it fits him. Some people in denial might keep trying it on even if it clearly doesn't fit. And of course there are those who don't need to try it on at all. On a soap opera, no matter which category you fall into, those issues are going to be amplified by the fact that you're on a soap opera, home of baby switches, murders, resurrections, paternity mysteries, long-lost relatives, and the DiMeras. Drama is heightened, and that may include drama around coming out.

I am speaking as a gay man who has never had to try on heterosexuality. I don't mind the storylines we're seeing thus far and would frankly rather see a gay storyline that treats its characters with the same melodramatic excesses as the straight couples than one that gives us the sanitized moralizing of a public service announcement and then drops its characters altogether (I'm looking at you, GH!). As for Kyle, it was very clear he did not return Gigi's advances, so it didn't bother me that he didn't run screaming into the night because a woman's lips touched his. I have a gay friend who will make out with just about anyone or anything if he's drunk enough.

I can see where Crystal is coming from. ATWT pulled this crap with Noah before they firmly established that he was gay. The summer of Noah's arrival and his sleeping with Maddie and those endless scenes of them kissing were not fun.

Latino Fan Club productions are notorious for their videos depicting some "straight" dude having an encounter with a gay guy. They even run a disclaimer in the beginning indicating that not all acts performed by the "models" are indicative of their sexual orientation. I find it to be a bit insulting at times because they exploit the theory that gay men constantly fantasize about straight men and seducing them. Trust me, it is no fun pining after someone you cannot have. See, to me, if a straight men is participating in sexual relations with men regularly, something's up.

As daytime continues it's evolution with gay storylines, hopefully those stories will move further away from "coming out of the closet" tales. After awhile, that becomes boring. It's like ethnic characters. Stop writing them as such and write them as human beings!!!!

As a very out loud, very proud gay guy i can see 100% where Cyrstal is coming from. I never went through a period of being attracted to girls, never. only in high school did i pretend to be. I always knew i was into men and only men. Even before i knew what sex was i knew i liked guys in a way different than i liked girls and i knew it was different than what other guys my age were feeling and talking about. I do think it would be more realistic and progressive if some of the gay characters on daytime (and tv for that matter) were just gay and that being gay wasn't their characters defining quality. Why must every gay character be known as "the gay character" why can't a character just be a soap character who happens to be gay? what if they introduced a character, refered to their off-screen lover and then when we meet the lover on-screen it just happens to be a same sex partner? why must it be such a big deal?

Although I understand what Crystal and the rest of the repliers are talking about, I am not bothered by some of the transition (fast or slow) from straight to gay for the characters. Since sexual confusion is just as part of life, it should be written to be part of a story sometimes. I don't find it annoying. I think 742 nailed it with his view on gay men and the current society.

Yes, coming out stories will get old... they already are "old" in the film medium but what television (and especially daily episodics such as daytime serials) has to its advantage is the amount of time to fully develop these stories in a longer span instead of getting it through in a 2-hour frame.

I guess the prime example in recent history is of course Noah from ATWT. Despite the other crap shoot going on at the time with the writing on the show, I thought the writers handled Noah's outing pretty well. I saw a lot of what I went through in his character and totally understand some of physical and emotional restraints from Noah even after coming out that others have criticized the character as boring and wooden.

Perhaps it's purely coincidental that I'm giving too much credit to ATWT writers or Jake Silbermann's portrayal, but many of Noah's actions since he arrived onscreen I "get" because I can associate with him... down to being a military brat with a filmmaking background. It's also always nice for me to see a little bit of myself portrayed elsewhere for a different perspective.

I do agree that with all the "write gay character as regular characters" comments, it's rather silly that most shows can't do that for whatever reasons (restrictions by networks, not having the talent to craft such scenes, unfamiliarity...). That's why I continue to try to be patient with television (not just daytime soaps) in hopes to see that and catch glimpses of the progress. After all, I watch because I want to see these moments of triumph for the characters I root for and are invested in emotionally.

BTW, I am loving these discussions on the boards.

I guess I kind of see both points of this here. Personally, I would like to see more matter-of-fact gay characters like Rafe on Y&R, but I completely see the value in the coming out journey and story and the struggle to find one's sexual identity. It's obviously something that has to mean a lot to people who have gone through a similar experience. I personally never had that struggle, as I knew I was gay from the time I was ready to think of myself in a sexual/romantic context. During college, I became really resentful of the idea that people always assume heterosexuality until they're told otherwise, and that if you think someone's gay when they aren't, it's a huge insult. I've since mellowed out about it and kind of taken the attitude that people are how they are and that's that. But I would like to see some of the assumptions surrounding homosexuality and heterosexuality challenged more, especially in daytime where these issues have so much time potentially to develop.

But I'll also say, if we're talking about actual porn, the whole fantasy of converting the straight guy is probably so popular because of how it plays on guys' emotions. The idea isn't so much that a straight guy is, by default, hotter than a gay guy. But I do think a lot of gay men, certainly myself included, have had feelings for straight guys. The guys being straight was probably just an unfortunate coincidence. But watching a straight guy be turned on and seduced by gay men kind of validates that unrequited attraction, or maybe just gives some hope to its existence. Converting the straight guy isn't about him rejecting the woman, it's about the gay man being able to compete with the woman. That's how I think of it at least. Just my two cents.

well im gay, and I had girlfriends in high school to just fit in..maybe if the writers would bring that up it would make more sense. Cause alot of my gay and lesbian friends did the same thing in high school until they were comfortable being who they are..

For me whats getting Old.. is seeing the same ol same ol coming out story.. I would love to see a different character.. a strong masculine character Struggling with Coming out .. maybe he lives his life on the DL .. he has a girlfriend or wife.. but sees men on the side.. but finally he meets a man who gives him everything he wants in life.. therefore he comes clean with his life both lives become one... that to me is telling a different Coming out story.. and then u build on their Characters from there.. However... They must be Characters that are on the show... Characters with a little known history of Hiding Secrets... I.E. Jessie on AMC... or Johnny on GH

OLTL almost had this SPOT on.. with Daniel Colson only they made him a Murderer... they had to spin it somehow that he had to be severly troubled in order to be Masculine and Gay...

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