Ok so which Oscar wins have been unjustly criticized?
There are quite a few recent Best Actor wins whom people on this board seem to despise: Jamie Foxx, Sean Penn, Philip Seymour Hoffman, etc.
I HATED "Mystic River," but I thought Penn was fantastic. And yeah Heath Ledger was terrific in "Brokeback Mountain" (he was one of the few good things about that lousy movie), but Hoffman was better.
And I still get irritated when people lampoon the wins of Jack Nicholson ("As Good As It Gets"), Helen Hunt and Jessica Lange ("Tootsie").
I think most people just didn't want Nicholson to win his 3rd Oscar which is why they criticize his work in "As Good As It Gets." I personally think Nicholson is hilarious as Melvin Udall. It's a great performance and Nicholson never hits a bad note.
I think people dislike Hunt and Lange's first win for similar reasons. Neither Lange or Hunt's performances are gimmicky. We're so used to our female winners winning for big, loud, gimmicky performances so sometimes it's off putting when quieter performances prevail. I loved both Lange and Hunt in those films. Their performances felt so natural.
There's a part in "Tootsie" that gets me everytime I see it. Julie (Lange) thinks Tootsie is a lesbian and tells her "You're really great, Dorothy. But I can't love you like that." It's a killer scene and Lange plays it perfectly.
Anyway, which Oscar wins do you guys think are unfairly maligned?
Luise Rainer, The Great Ziegfeld & The Good Earth (brilliant performances both! Simply because she disappeared after her wins doesn't make them undeserving) Judy Holliday, Born Yesterday (maybe the greatest comedy performance ever!) Glenda Jackson, A Touch of Class (totally funny!) Sally Field, Places in the Heart (very touching) Helen Hunt, As Good as it Gets (great performance!)
Posts: 7915 | Location: Good Ol' Germany | Registered: March 27, 2005
Originally posted by DoubleD: Ok so which Oscar wins have been unjustly criticized?
There are quite a few recent Best Actor wins whom people on this board seem to despise: Jamie Foxx, Sean Penn, Philip Seymour Hoffman, etc.
I HATED "Mystic River," but I thought Penn was fantastic. And yeah Heath Ledger was terrific in "Brokeback Mountain" (he was one of the few good things about that lousy movie), but Hoffman was better.
And I still get irritated when people lampoon the wins of Jack Nicholson ("As Good As It Gets"), Helen Hunt and Jessica Lange ("Tootsie").
I think most people just didn't want Nicholson to win his 3rd Oscar which is why they criticize his work in "As Good As It Gets." I personally think Nicholson is hilarious as Melvin Udall. It's a great performance and Nicholson never hits a bad note.
I think people dislike Hunt and Lange's first win for similar reasons. Neither Lange or Hunt's performances are gimmicky. We're so used to our female winners winning for big, loud, gimmicky performances so sometimes it's off putting when quieter performances prevail. I loved both Lange and Hunt in those films. Their performances felt so natural.
There's a part in "Tootsie" that gets me everytime I see it. Julie (Lange) thinks Tootsie is a lesbian and tells her "You're really great, Dorothy. But I can't love you like that." It's a killer scene and Lange plays it perfectly.
Anyway, which Oscar wins do you guys think are unfairly maligned?
Personally I did not think Hunt gave a very subtle performance. To me she gave a hammy performance and her accent was all over the place. I thought Jack Nicholson was even hammier and did not capture anything of the reality of OCD. It also seemed very easily overcome at times in ways convenient for a movie but nothing like real life. I found all of "As Good As It Gets" a phony mess and did not like much of anything. I thought GReg Kinnear gave one of the phoniest, sappiest, most offensively cliched straight-guy-playing-gay performances and I found the situations in the film completely contrived. And the film had a lousy, TV quality look in its cinematography and editing that has made it hard for me to watch it for more than fifteen minutes since the first time I saw it in the theatre. Not a fan. Not a fan at all.
I have no complaints with any of the other performances you cite. I was rooting for Philip Seymour Hoffman to win best actor... even though I wanted "Brokeback Mountain" to take best picture. I was not rooting for Sean Penn, very much so in the Bill Murray camp that year, but still though Penn was excellent and would have been my best actor choice most years.
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Posts: 17850 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: February 02, 2003
I think Halle Berry's win is unfairly criticized. So many people (especially posters on this very board) write her win off as AMPAS wanting to finally crown a black actress in the Best Actress category. I think that Sissy Spacek would've been equally deserving, but I thought Halle totally deserved her Oscar. Maybe I would have felt differently if Spacek hadn't already won an Oscar, but she does have one. Berry delivered in Monster's Ball and she was reciprocated accordingly.
I'd add Crash's Best Picture win to that list too. I'm aware that some people really thought it was a horrible movie; understood. However, I also think a lot of people only criticize the win because they thought Brokeback Mountain should've won and they just want a reason to call Hollywood homophobic.
I'm not saying that the above 2 cases aren't partly true regarding AMPAS (voters wanting to reward a black actress, voters being homophobic). But the reason I say that they're unfairly criticized is because these are the two reasons used to justify the criticisms. Criticism should only be warranted if said subject isn't good, but using these "outside" reasons to criticize wins is ridiculous. If you truly believe that these films/performances aren't deserving, then just say that. But criticizing the wins because you *think* there's an ulterior motive is unfair and it belittles the work of everyone involved.
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Originally posted by pacinofan: Personally I did not think Hunt gave a very subtle performance. To me she gave a hammy performance and her accent was all over the place. I thought Jack Nicholson was even hammier and did not capture anything of the reality of OCD. It also seemed very easily overcome at times in ways convenient for a movie but nothing like real life. I found all of "As Good As It Gets" a phony mess and did not like much of anything. I thought GReg Kinnear gave one of the phoniest, sappiest, straight-guy-playing-gay performances and I found the situations in the film completely contrived. And the film had a lousy, TV quality look in its cinematography and editing that has made it hard for me to watch it for more than fifteen since the first time I saw it in the theatre. Not a fan. Not a fan at all.
I have no complaints with any of the other performances you cite. I was rooting for Philip Seymour Hoffman to win best actor... even though I wanted "Brokeback Mountain" to take best picture. I was not rooting for Sean Penn, very much so in the Bill Murray camp that year, but still though Penn was excellent and would have been my best actor choice most years.
See I pretty much loved AGAIG so we'll definitely have to agree to disagree.
And just FYI as much as I loved Hunt, I think Judi Dench should've won Best Actress that year. "Mrs. Brown" is, arguably, her greatest performance to date.
Originally posted by MrTalented: I'd add Crash's Best Picture win to that list too. I'm aware that some people really thought it was a horrible movie; understood. However, I also think a lot of people only criticize the win because they thought Brokeback Mountain should've won and they just want a reason to call Hollywood homophobic.
I have not a problem in the world with "Crash"'s BP win mainly because I think "Brokeback Mountain" stinks. The script (and Jake Gyllenhaal's performance) feels so contrived and the makeup jobs on the actors (e.g. Anne Hathaway) is awful. Only good things about the film are Heath Ledger, Michelle Williams and the cinematography.
I like Ang Lee, but I really wish he would've won an Oscar for one of his better films.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DoubleD,
Originally posted by MrTalented: I'd add Crash's Best Picture win to that list too. I'm aware that some people really thought it was a horrible movie; understood. However, I also think a lot of people only criticize the win because they thought Brokeback Mountain should've won and they just want a reason to call Hollywood homophobic.
I have not a problem in the world with "Crash"'s BP win mainly because I think "Brokeback Mountain" stinks. The script (and Jake Gyllenhaal's performance) feels so contrived and the makeup jobs on the actors (e.g. Anne Hathaway) is awful. Only good things about the film are Heath Ledger, Michelle Williams and the cinematography.
I like Ang Lee, but I really wish he would've won an Oscar for one of his better films.
To me it's "Crash" that has a contrived and often grossly overwritten screenplay. I liked it the first time I saw it in the theatre, and will admit it is an exciting and well acted film, but upon a second viewing the dialogue seemed so ludicrous at times that I stopped watching.
P.S. To prove how much I liked this film at first I bought a copy but while trying to watch it I had the reaction I describe above. I ended up giving my copy to my brother.
Posts: 17850 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: February 02, 2003
Originally posted by pacinofan: Personally I did not think Hunt gave a very subtle performance. To me she gave a hammy performance and her accent was all over the place. I thought Jack Nicholson was even hammier and did not capture anything of the reality of OCD. It also seemed very easily overcome at times in ways convenient for a movie but nothing like real life. I found all of "As Good As It Gets" a phony mess and did not like much of anything. I thought Greg Kinnear gave one of the phoniest, sappiest, straight-guy-playing-gay performances and I found the situations in the film completely contrived. And the film had a lousy, TV quality look in its cinematography and editing that has made it hard for me to watch it for more than fifteen since the first time I saw it in the theatre. Not a fan. Not a fan at all.
Thanks for the criticism of As Good As It Gets. It was an okay movie, but it felt like a sitcom mixed up with a Lifetime movie. Sure the performances do elevate it, but I wouldn't have awarded Nicholson or Hunt with trophies. Of course, the Best Actor category was a bit weak that year, but I would have went with Robert Duvall who I thought was robbed or even Matt Damon and not awarded Best Original Screenplay to Good Will Hunting and instead awarded Boogie Nights. I would have picked anyone over Hunt, but she was lucky that all the other nominees were British. While I admire the way Greg Kinnear's career took off after Talk Soup, I think he also benefitted that year by playing a gay man when he was straight instead of his spot going to a real gay man playing a gay man in Rupert Everett for My Best Friend's Wedding.
I would have been fine with Nicholson winning his third for About Schmidt or really anyone from that year winning Best Actor because they were all great but very different performances.
As for the topic though, while I would have went with Laura Linney or Ellen Burstyn that year, I have no problem with Julia Roberts winning for Erin Brockovich because I think lately its one of those rare Hollywood movies done right, and I felt that she gave her best performance there.
I'm also fine with Phillip Seymour Hoffman winning for Capote and would have awarded him for Best Actor. I just wonder how much of it is because of Heath Ledger's untimely death because before that time, it seemed everyone knew he was going to win as he swept award after award and seemed fine with it, at least at that time, and now I see a lot of people putting Hoffman's in the same category as Helen Hunt's or Hilary Swank's second win. I do hope that Ledger does win for Best Supporting Actor, as of right now, because I feel that he truly deserves it, and it wouldn't be a make-up award, at least to me, for not winning previously not that I think he should have, but he should have gotten the chance to have many Oscar nominations in his career.
I was also surprised to find that there were several people maligning Frances McDormand's win. That was an incredibly strong year for Best Actress, and another year where I would have been fine if Emily Watson or Brenda Blethyn had taken it instead, but I loved McDormand's performance too and was happy that she won. Of course, over at AD, I'm always amazed that so many people still love American Beauty and would have awarded Annette Bening over Hilary Swank. I didn't like Swank's second win, but I thought her first win was an example of Oscar getting it right for once, and not awarding Bening's over the top performance.
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Yeah, I am perfectly okay with Phillip Seymour Hoffman winning Best Actor that year. Frankly, I wouldn't have minded anyone in that category winning except for Terrence Howard.
I think Mira Sorvino gets a lot of flack for her win and the fact that her career never really took off. My opinions on her win have changed constantly but I am perfectly fine with her win (although Joan Allen was just one of the other nominees that I thought was great that year).
Posts: 988 | Location: WV | Registered: October 23, 2005
I think that Marisa Tomei was one of the biggest unfairly maligned wins. She was "the" find of the year; garnered rapturous reviews, and critics were ecstatic at first that her comedic performance broke through into the Oscar race.
Then she wins, and for years after, the same performance that led to all those kudos is ridiculed by the press. It was the height of hypocracy in my opinion, and took Tomei years to recover from professionally. Thank God that "In The Bedroom" re-established her, and she is again doing consistently great work.
Posts: 471 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: February 03, 2003
Originally posted by MrTalented: I'd add Crash's Best Picture win to that list too. I'm aware that some people really thought it was a horrible movie; understood. However, I also think a lot of people only criticize the win because they thought Brokeback Mountain should've won and they just want a reason to call Hollywood homophobic.
I wasn't a fan of either "Crash" or "Brokeback Mountain". I was not cheering for them when they were released and they haven't aged very well in my mind. BM is still a stilted (others would say pensive) movie with a cliche last act and a dull passionless performance from jake Gyllenhaal. "Crash" has gotten worse with time. After viewing it a second time, free from its devices, it became more apparent how cartoonish and preachy it is. There's no humanity to the film. It's all mechanics. "Capote" and "Munich" were by far the superior Best Picture nominees that year.
As far as wrongly maligned winners go, I have to stand up for Julia Roberts. With the exception of Juliet Binoche, that was a very strong Best Actress year. I would have been fine with any of the women wlaking away with the gold. Roberts is admittedly not the greatest actress, certainly not better than Burstyn or or Linney. Still, she won the award for giving a great performance, not great acting. She commanded the screen. She was funny and affecting and terse. She was all the the things that is known for being as an actress. She may not have been the most deserving, but compared to some other dismal acting choices this decade, she was at least acceptable.
I am often boggled by the Hoffman hate. He gave a performance that was both quiet and bravado. There was nothing false about it. Most of the disagreement has to based on Ledger bitterness.
Clifton Collins Jr, was the best part of Capote, as far as I am concerned. If they had cast him along with the others for Infamous, it would have been a far better film than Capote. Philip Seymour Hoffman's Truman irritated me and I felt like slapping him across his film face. I loved him in his previous performances, where at least he was an animated human. I saw more evidence of Capote's humanity watching news reels of him walking across the street.
Crash vs Brokeback, Crash vs Brokeback...homophobia, not homophobia, preachy vomit vs great film.
And of course, Jennifer Hudson's maligned win. I could go back to almost the beginning and malign or defend not just the winners, but the nominees and snubees in every category.
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Posts: 8242 | Location: canada | Registered: December 22, 2005
Babypook...what, may I ask is remotely homophobic about the movie Crash? I get it..you think the voters were homophobic for not voting for boreback (I mean brokeback) mountain. But what about the MOVIE of Crash is homophobic. Homosexuality is not addressed at all in the film.
Claiming you don't like Brokeback Mountain for purely aesthetic reasons is like all those Red States claiming they don't like Barack Obama for reasons other than his race.
Originally posted by LFTSPICE44: Babypook...what, may I ask is remotely homophobic about the movie Crash? I get it..you think the voters were homophobic for not voting for boreback (I mean brokeback) mountain. But what about the MOVIE of Crash is homophobic. Homosexuality is not addressed at all in the film.
What, are you talking about? I think you have misread or misunderstood my post.
However, you have underscored the point I was making.....more vitriol over these two films...
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Posts: 8242 | Location: canada | Registered: December 22, 2005
Claiming you don't like Brokeback Mountain for purely aesthetic reasons is like all those Red States claiming they don't like Barack Obama for reasons other than his race.
So anyone who doesn't like Obama is racist (it could have nothing to do with his policies or lack thereof?) and anyone who doesn't like Brokeback is homophobic? Interesting, considering my BOYFRIEND hated Brokeback. Is he homophobic??
BTW...isn't Obama half white? Funny that everyone...including him....only focus on other half. And let me tell ya....I live in Illinois and there are plenty of people here of all races who don't like Obama. It doesn't make them racist.
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___________________________ 81st Annual Academy Award Winners (hopefully!):
Best Actress: Meryl Streep "Doubt" Best Supporting Actress: Viola Davis "Doubt:
Posts: 6933 | Location: Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2005
Originally posted by pacinofan: To me it's "Crash" that has a contrived and often grossly overwritten screenplay. I liked it the first time I saw it in the theatre, and will admit it is an exciting and well acted film, but upon a second viewing the dialogue seemed so ludicrous at times that I stopped watching.
My feelings exactly. To be quite honest, I was rooting for it that night. I really was. The first time I watched it, I thought it was a fantastic web of urban life. It wasn't until viewing #2 and 3 that I realized how bold-faced Haggis and his co-writer made the "underlying" racism. Ugh, some scenes make you want to push the Scene Skip, others make you want to go puke. But I will admit, the car crash and sidewalk shooting scenes still get to me.
As for Penn, I have never openly criticized his work in Mystic River. I simply didn't find the work in that film, or the film in general, to be that overly impressive. Though I will admit, Little Miss Coppolla did out-do herself with the slow, dull, yawn-inducing Lost in Translation. For me, the performance that impressed me and kept me intrigued was.... wait for it....
Johnny Depp from Pirates of the Caribbean. I was so happy when he was nominated, and granted the SAG award. I still think it is a highly underrated performance. And to those that call it hammy, I ask you to rewatch the film right now, and then read what I am written below:
Duh.
My Oscar Predictions:
PICTURE: Milk or Dark Knight DIRECTOR: David Fincher, Curious Case of Benjamin Button ACTOR: Sean Penn, Milk or Frank Langella, Frost/Nixon ACTRESS: Meryl Streep, Doubt or Kate Winslet, Revolutionary Road SUPPORTING ACTOR: Heath Ledger, Dark Knight or Michael Shannon, Revolutionary Road SUPPORTING ACTRESS: Kate Winslet, The Reader, or Penelope Cruz, Vicky Cristina Barcelona ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY: Milk ADAPTED SCREENPLAY: Slumdog Millionaire ANIMATED FEATURE: Wall.E BEST ORIGINAL SONG: Peter Gabriel, Thomas Newman, "Down to Earth" BEST ORIGINAL SCORE: Thomas Newman, Wall.E
Posts: 1061 | Location: Right behind you. | Registered: December 07, 2007
Claiming you don't like Brokeback Mountain for purely aesthetic reasons is like all those Red States claiming they don't like Barack Obama for reasons other than his race.
So anyone who doesn't like Obama is racist (it could have nothing to do with his policies or lack thereof?) and anyone who doesn't like Brokeback is homophobic? Interesting, considering my BOYFRIEND hated Brokeback. Is he homophobic??
BTW...isn't Obama half white? Funny that everyone...including him....only focus on other half. And let me tell ya....I live in Illinois and there are plenty of people here of all races who don't like Obama. It doesn't make them racist.
Would those people be called Republicans? Illinois went a long time where they only had Republican governors so there must be a lot of them out there. There are a lot of people in AZ who don't like McCain, though he will win here handily, and those people are Democrats or at least people who lean more liberal.
I do not think to dislike Obama is racist. I do think racism plays a part in that swathe of people who says they won't vote for him "just because there is something about him they don't like" or "they can't put their finger on it but they don't trust him". I also think racism plays a part in people who still believe despite all the invallidating reports that Obama is a Muslim. Or even worse the nuts who believe he is the Anti-Christ.
Posts: 17850 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: February 02, 2003
