Evan Ross?

I think they should just have Janet Jackson play her brother.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: puxzkkx,

Well, if only black actors can play black characters, there was no uproar for Eddie Murphy playing an Asian character in Norbit.

I wouldn't want a white actor playing Michael Jackson at any stage of his life either, and that has the potential to offend countless people. I wouldn't want to see a rushed Michael Jackson film come out any time soon either.

quote:

Originally posted by MrTalented:
OK, I initially thought the Anne Hathaway mention was a joke.

Now I think it's just downright disrespectful.

That's your opinion of course.

But... I do agree that it would be odd and a bit much for a white actor to appropriate the character of such a famous black personality, white as he was.

quote:

Originally posted by puxzkkx:
Evan Ross?

I think they should just have Janet Jackson play her brother.

Actually that's not a bad idea in terms of getting someone that will look most like Michael as long as she's in a skinny stage at the time. Or maybe LaToya since Janet still looks normal with all the plastic surgery, and because sometimes I've thought LaToya looked like Michael with breasts to me because of all the plastic surgery they both had done which I guess was done by the same surgeon or some times used the same surgeon because of how identical they looked at different times in their lives.

I remember Gia Carangi doing some very beautiful Michael Jackson photos back in the day.....hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by seanflynn:
And if Tyler Perry can somehow be accepted as an old black woman, hasn't this barrier in some way been breached anyway? Yes, it is different, but it's artistic licence, and such a licence is not just available to one group of people.

So, you're now 4/4 for examples that simply aren't comparable to this situation.

When he's dressed as Madea, Tyler Perry isn't pretending to be a real-life character. Madea is FICTIONAL.

And I also find it interesting that you've continually glanced past my point about how important his being black was a major part of Michael's legacy. The fact that he was groundbreaking was due largely to the fact that he was black. To cast a white actor, in my opinion, would blatantly ignore that.

quote:

Originally posted by bottomchef:
Well, if only black actors can play black characters, there was no uproar for Eddie Murphy playing an Asian character in Norbit.

This is yet another example that's ridiculous and isn't comparable to this situation.

Eddie Murphy was not cast as any particular, non-fictional Asian person. He played a variety of different characters in Norbit.

I can't believe that I'm actually having to explain the difference between Johnny Depp (or any other non-black actor) playing Michael Jackson and Cate Blanchett/Bob Dylan, Eddie Murphy/Norbit, Sean Penn/Harvey Milk, and Tyler Perry/Madea.

The fact that you all have collectively presented these irrelevant examples and have failed to acknowledge Jackson's importance to black history as it's relevant to his life story (which is exactly why only a black actor should portray him), then I'm not sure what else there is to say. I've stated SEVERAL times in this thread that Jackson's being black is a vital factor to why he was so important. None of you have even attempted to comment on that. You're all so caught up in your precious "artistic integrity" that it's obviously blinding reality for some of you. You know what would be a slap in the face to real artistry? To cast a white actor as a black man who was significant to the progression of blacks in this country. Racially and politically, Michael Jackson was very important and relevant to black history. It's not just that he's black that he should be portrayed by a black actor; but the fact that his life helped to improve the lives of other African-Americans in this country is dually important.

But it's clear that none of you realize that, seeing as I've mentioned it numerous times and no one else has even commented on it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,

I understand that Michael Jackson was black.

But for the life of me I don't see how he was "important to black history."

Sure, he sold a lot of records and entertained a lot of people of all races. But how was that historic in the history of American black people?

What barriers did he break down? They had been broken down before him.

Please cite one example of how Michael Jackson changed political history. It was your claim; evidence please?

To hear you talk about him, it sounds like he somehow was the equivalent of Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela; those are people who I consider historic.

He carried on a tradition of black soul music (more successfully done at Motown than anywhere else, and pioneered years before the Jackson Five came along) of appealing to a vast white audience as well as black, and with distancing a bit from black roots (contrasted say with Aretha Franklin or Ray Charles or in earlier years Billie Holliday for example). He was terrifically talented, provided a lot of entertainment. But an important figure in black history? He was an important figure in entertainment history who happened to be black.

I am asking this because there is a real chance I am missing something - there are lots of things I am not as expert on, and his role as an iconic black person may be one of them. As others above have pointed out, it sure as hell wasn't something he wanted to be seen as - most of the actions in his adult life seemed to be about his running away from his blackness.

And in the latter part of his life, there is no actor who I think could capture this better than Johnny Depp.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: seanflynn,

quote:

Originally posted by seanflynn:
I understand that Michael Jackson was black.

But for the life of me I don't see how he was "important to black history."

Sure, he sold a lot of records and entertained a lot of people of all races. But how was that historic in the history of American black people?

You're missing a whole hell of a lot then.

One of Michael Jackson's crowning achievements was that he was the first black artist to ever be played on MTV. He was initially told that his videos couldn't be played there because of his race, but he fought back and broke down the color barriers.

Whether you want to believe it or not, that was a HUGE stride for African-Americans in this country. During the '60s & '70s, black performers were barred from performing in a lot of places based on their race, and MTV attempted to do the same thing to Michael Jackson. He completely overcame race in a way that no other African-American before him did. The only difference is that he did it through music. This is a man who was told both no (as a member of the Jackson 5, based on his race) and yes (as a solo artist, when he finally got fed up and fought back).

Granted, people like MLK and Mandela helped make what MJ did possible. One could argue that there wasn't total equality for blacks in the industry until Michael Jackson broke through at MTV during the '80s.

Just so you know, black history doesn't just include political figures like Malcolm X, Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King, Jr. It does indeed include people like Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Dorothy Dandridge and Jackie Robinson. Therefore, MJ's influence, importance and relevance to black history cannot be denied.

If you didn't see or understand that, then I totally understand why you're behind Johnny Depp playing Michael Jackson. It's sad that I had to post this and that so many people only think of Michael Jackson as an important musical icon. They always ignore the fact that he was important for race relations within the music industry, which also makes him important to black history.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,

quote:

He was initially told that his videos couldn't be played there because of his race, but he fought back and broke down the color barriers.

What?

quote:

Just so you know, black history doesn't just include political figures like Malcolm X, Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King, Jr. It does indeed include people like Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Dorothy Dandridge and Jackie Robinson. Therefore, MJ's influence, importance and relevance to black history cannot be denied.

If you didn't see or understand that, then I totally understand why you're behind Johnny Depp playing Michael Jackson.

Oh please, Michael Jackson getting played on MTV is in the same league with even Jackie Robinson, or Oprah's massive impact?

Of course I understand that black history covers many areas outside of politics. But if all you can point to is getting on MTV (and yes, I remember the era, that after the horrible 1970s when radio stations became formatted by race, unlike the wonderful 60s, when I grew up, where you could hear many different things).

But the idea that it would be some massive affront because he "integrated" MTV (which would have happened anyway; had they not played his videos, someone else would have, and hurt them) and thus having Johnny Depp can't possibly play him in his later years when he was actively trying not to seem black - sorry, once again, I don't follow.

I get that you are a huge fan of his, and possibly he played a large part in your life. I'm trying to be sensitive here. I do see that his death has caused an emotional reaction within the black community that is somewhat different from the non-black.

But I suspect he'd be thrilled with the idea of Depp playing him.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: seanflynn,

Didn't Angelina Jolie play a real-life African American woman in "A Might Heart" a few years ago?

quote:

Originally posted by seanflynn:

quote:

Just so you know, black history doesn't just include political figures like Malcolm X, Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King, Jr. It does indeed include people like Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Dorothy Dandridge and Jackie Robinson. Therefore, MJ's influence, importance and relevance to black history cannot be denied.

If you didn't see or understand that, then I totally understand why you're behind Johnny Depp playing Michael Jackson.

Oh please, Michael Jackson getting played on MTV is in the same league with even Jackie Robinson, or Oprah's massive impact?

Of course I understand that black history covers many areas outside of politics. But if all you can point to is getting on MTV (and yes, I remember the era, that after the horrible 1970s when radio stations became formatted by race, unlike the wonderful 60s, when I grew up, where you could hear many different things).

But the idea that it would be some massive affront because he "integrated" MTV (which would have happened anyway; had they not played his videos, someone else would have, and hurt them) and thus having Johnny Depp can't possibly play him in his later years when he was actively trying not to seem black - sorry, once again, I don't follow.

I get that you are a huge fan of his, and possibly he played a large part in your life. I'm trying to be sensitive here. I do see that his death has caused an emotional reaction within the black community that is somewhat different from the non-black.

But I suspect he'd be thrilled with the idea of Depp playing him.

Who cares if MTV would have eventually become integrated?

The point is that it was Michael Jackson who did it.

And I'd honestly say that Michael Jackson's impact was just as massive as Oprah's. I really don't see what's so hard to believe about that.

MJ integrating MTV was a huge deal, and you're really downplaying it by saying that "it would have happened eventually." By saying that, you also sidestepped my point. My entire point was that it was Michael Jackson who did it.

quote:

Originally posted by bildo10:
Didn't Angelina Jolie play a real-life African American woman in "A Might Heart" a few years ago?

Yes, she did. And there was major outcry from the black community about it.

But if people think for one second that they'll get away with casting a non-black actor as Michael Jackson, then they've got a fight on their hands that they will never be prepared for. You can believe that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,

How about Joan Rivers?

quote:

Originally posted by puxzkkx:
How about Joan Rivers?

Meryl Streep should also be considered.

quote:

Originally posted by seanflynn:

quote:

Just so you know, black history doesn't just include political figures like Malcolm X, Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and Martin Luther King, Jr. It does indeed include people like Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Dorothy Dandridge and Jackie Robinson. Therefore, MJ's influence, importance and relevance to black history cannot be denied.

If you didn't see or understand that, then I totally understand why you're behind Johnny Depp playing Michael Jackson.

Oh please, Michael Jackson getting played on MTV is in the same league with even Jackie Robinson, or Oprah's massive impact?

Of course I understand that black history covers many areas outside of politics. But if all you can point to is getting on MTV (and yes, I remember the era, that after the horrible 1970s when radio stations became formatted by race, unlike the wonderful 60s, when I grew up, where you could hear many different things).

But the idea that it would be some massive affront because he "integrated" MTV (which would have happened anyway; had they not played his videos, someone else would have, and hurt them) and thus having Johnny Depp can't possibly play him in his later years when he was actively trying not to seem black - sorry, once again, I don't follow.

I get that you are a huge fan of his, and possibly he played a large part in your life. I'm trying to be sensitive here. I do see that his death has caused an emotional reaction within the black community that is somewhat different from the non-black.

But I suspect he'd be thrilled with the idea of Depp playing him.

Alrght, seanflynn. Now you're being crass and arrogant in your dismissivness, and you clearly don't remember the era. Especially since you don't remember this history.

Is Michael Jackson's getting on MTV in the same league as Jackie Robinson and Oprah? One hundred percent. MTV was huge in the early eighties, it had already taken over the music business, and it was the only viable game in town. And it had an all-white playlist. And they refused to play Michael Jackson's videos. (Although I'll disagree with Mr. Talented. I highly doubt MTV out-and-out said they wouldn't play his videos because of his race. They're not so stupid to jeopardise their reputation like that, although you can't get more loud and clear implication than an all-white playlist.) It took a little strong-arming from Jackson and CBS records to break the barrier, but they did it. Now the majority of popular videos played on MTV are black musical acts.

Your argument is that MTV would have been integrated anyway is asinine. Baseball would have been integrated anyway were Jackie Robinson not to have succeeded. The credit would just have gone to someone else who would have appeared a little later. So what? According to your logic, Jackie Robinson shouldn't be celebrated any more than Michael Jackson, for the same reasons.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: stevie,

Or Toni Collette. She can play anything!

quote:

Originally posted by stevie:
Alrght, seanflynn. Now you're being crass and arrogant in your dismissivness, and you clearly don't remember the era. Especially since you don't remember this history.

Is Michael Jackson's getting on MTV in the same league as Jackie Robinson and Oprah? One hundred percent. MTV was huge in the early eighties, it had already taken over the music business, and it was the only viable game in town. And it had an all-white playlist. And they refused to play Michael Jackson's videos. (Although I'll disagree with Mr. Talented. I highly doubt MTV out-and-out said they wouldn't play his videos because of his race. They're not so stupid to jeopardise their reputation like that, although you can't get more loud and clear implication than an all-white playlist.) It took a little strong-arming from Jackson and CBS records to break the barrier, but they did it. Now the majority of popular videos played on MTV are black musical acts.

Your argument is that MTV would have been integrated anyway is asinine. Baseball would have been integrated anyway were Jackie Robinson not to have succeeded. The credit would just have gone to someone else who would have appeared a little later. So what? According to your logic, Jackie Robinson shouldn't be celebrated any more than Michael Jackson, for the same reasons.

Thank you for this post, stevie.

The fact that seanflynn is obviously old enough to remember the early '80s and chose to be dismissive of MJ's achievement with MTV is quite surprising (maybe even bothersome), especially given that I wasn't even alive back then. I've studied and researched enough to know how major MTV was in its start up days and how huge it was for a black performer (Michael Jackson) to make the network fix its act.

And you're right. They probably didn't say outright that it was because of his race, but from the stories I've been told and from what I've studied, he was loosely told that (more or less).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,

I am not dismissive of Jackson's MTV breakthrough.

I also don't think it has anything to do of whether Johnny Depp should be considered to play him. Sorry.