Since the last thread reached well over 500 posts.....I took it upon myself to create the second one....
This was the last post (from me) in the last thread...
quote from Xtina: I think the album is just Ok. Confessions is definitely a better album and far exceeds Hard Candy. She's 50 years old and it just seems like she's trying so hard to connect with the youth today and is forcing this new brand of music for her which has already been done by her younger contemporaries. Some of the lyrics are so laughable on this album, and it's even funnier when you realize it's coming out of a 50 year old womans mouth. -end quote
My response: I agree with F4J, I wish Madonna went the direction of "Take A Bow", "Secret", etc. instead of making generic, force and contrived music which most of Hard Candy sounds like.
I totally agree here, and I am surprised that critics have not mentioned this in their reviews. I think because of Madonna's status as an "icon," she tends to get a somewhat of a pass on certain aspects of her music by mainstream critics. Like you mentioned, some of the lyrics are laughingly bad, and even more so when you DO stop to think about the fact that a almost 50 year old woman is singing them! It is funny that some of these same people on the boards (and critics) have criticized other artists-like Mariah for example-for not "acting her age" and having "juvenille lyrics." Yet, Madonna, a decade Mariah's senior, sings about Candyshops and "coming into this store I got candy, don't pretend you're not hungry" and has a ridiculous album cover, but very few mention or criticize it. People were throwing a fit and saying how sleazy Mariah was when the single cover of "Touch My Body" was released incorrectly as a possible album cover...and that was 100x more tasteful than this cover, which, for me, is the worst Madonna cover ever....and the photo on the back is even worse.
"Hard Candy" is NOT a bad album, but it is not great either. Again, Madonna has set the standard so high for herself that this release does seem "beneath" her. I sense the desperation to get the younger audience on this album, and tend to disagree with those who keep saying this is still a "Madonna" album. I have followed Madonna's career heavily since the lates 80's when I really, really started to get into music. Despite what some think, I really, really like Madonna own every single one of her albums. But I can say that clearly, this does not touch "Ray of Light," "Bedtime Stories," "Erotica," or even "Confessions." THOSE are Madonna albums. Those are albums where she was at the peak of her creativity and made music without thinking about whether is would be "popular" or not. This, whether you want to agree or not, is a attempt to regain a specific audience and commercial succcess, particularly in the U.S.
Still, I would give the album a B/B-. I like some of the songs "Miles Away," "Heartbeat," and even "4 Minutes" and "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" are good, but the rest I can take or leave. But I can say, after being recently exposed to Robyn's new album, this one pales significantly in comparison....
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Troy,
Posts: 6141 | Location: Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2005
Troy, I agree with you that the new album isn't as much of a "Madonna album" as some of her others, but Bedtime Stories? The only difference is that Babyface and Dallas Austin aren't the biggest producers working today. Timbaland and Pharrell are. So obviously the new album is not going to have the softer R&B sound, but I think both albums pander to the mainstream while maintaining Madonna's sound. The Timbaland tracks stick out but she co-produced the Pharrell tracks and you can tell.
"Well, it goes like this, the fourth, the fifth The minor fall, the major lift"
Posts: 141 | Location: Jersey | Registered: March 12, 2008
Troy, I agree with you that the new album isn't as much of a "Madonna album" as some of her others, but Bedtime Stories? The only difference is that Babyface and Dallas Austin aren't the biggest producers working today. Timbaland and Pharrell are. So obviously the new album is not going to have the softer R&B sound, but I think both albums pander to the mainstream while maintaining Madonna's sound. The Timbaland tracks stick out but she co-produced the Pharrell tracks and you can tell.
But even "Bedtime Story" had some pretty "risky" tracks for a mainstream album...the title track for one, and "Human Nature" were unlike anything heard on the radio at that time.
"I haven't listen to the album yet but I hate the double standard around here. Goodness!"
What double standard are you specifically talking about, CLawton?
Posts: 6141 | Location: Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2005
I agree that she isn't trying anything new in terms of music, but she's trying something new for herself. Yet, it still has that natural Madonna sound. Which is why I like the album. It's not Ray of Light...but for a pop, dance record it's pretty damn great.
You're right Troy. Bedtime Stories did incorporate electronica/trip-hop and I do like that album better but you could also say that this one incorporates electro/disco.
And I think C. Lawton is talking about the double standard of criticizing Mariah for not acting her age but not criticizing Madonna. I have to say that I disagree with that point. I don't think I've read one article or review or blog or forum post that doesn't bring up Madonna's age and how she's trying to appeal to a younger audience. I guess it's just par for the course when discussing female artists. I get the sense that the lyrics on this album are intentionally "shallow." I like Mariah's album a lot but I've noticed a lot of slang and intentionally improper grammar usage, even in the ballads. She's never really done that until recently. It seems like she's pandering to a certain audience. She's always been pretty well spoken and her lyrics were no exception.
Back to Madonna, I think the lyrics on "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" and "Voices" are some of her best, most sophisticated in years. I agree that the rest of the album is pretty silly.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Folkie,
"Well, it goes like this, the fourth, the fifth The minor fall, the major lift"
Posts: 141 | Location: Jersey | Registered: March 12, 2008
I think the Timbaland sound complements Madonna very well; however, I think Pharrell complements her a lot more. Many of the Timbaland tracks sound over-produced, whereas Pharrell just makes music that sounds authentic and incredibly groovy. Perhaps his work with Gwen makes him somewhat of an expert at making music like this, but it works very well with Madonna and doesn't come off as contrived at all. Exhibit A - "She's Not Me", where Madonna is pretty much letting us know she's still that bitch. This is the classic Madonna sound, with a tad of the urban, contemporary, retro r&b/hip-hop sound, all wrapped in one...creating one badass track. I gladly await this to be released as a single.
I think that Timbaland's tracks, while great, could have been made for anyone. While Pharrell's tracks seem specifically made for Madonna. Either way, one great pop album.
It's a great pop album that's stacked with potential hits. If Madonna chooses her singles wisely, this could end up being one of the biggest albums of the year.
"Give It 2 Me" is great, but not single material at all. I can't imagine that odd, electropop sound being embraced very much.
I think I'd release "Miles Away" next....followed by either "The Beat Goes On" or "She's Not Me", though I'd prefer the latter, simply because it's so badass.
I could imagine "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" being embraced very much by urban radio. That pop/r&b sound is alluring.
Unfortunately she's already at work making the video for Give It 2 Me so it is the next single. Hopefully, by the time Miles Away is out, the momentum will not have been lost.
Anyway, it's funny how some people are saying that the album sounds phoned in, and others are saying she's trying too hard. To me, it just sounds like she had fun with the sound; it is a perfect blend of pop, disco and hip-hop and something that will be playing on repeat in my car for some time.
Posts: 617 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: March 26, 2003
I actually think Give it 2 Me is a great choice for a single, and will do extremely well. Miles Away is the kind of song that she can use late in the game, to give the album one last boost. But Give it 2 Me is great. And judging by the random comments on youtube and what not, people seem to like it.
"Give It 2 Me" will be a great choice for a second single with the breakdown likely cut for the radio edit. As I stated before, it's a nice contrast to "4 Minutes" and I hope it surprises some people.
The Timbaland and Pharell tracks are overall on par with each other. Pharell's throwback concepts are better but his work sometimes gets too self-masturbatory. The aforementioned "get stupid" breakdown is intriguing if not, for lack of a better word, stupid. "Incredible" and "She's Not Me" are fab until they overstay their welcome by about a minute and a half of Pharell's overindulgence. Pharell also delivers the album's only complete dud ("Spanish Lesson" - surely there was a superior cut track). He redeems himself with "Heartbeat" and the nicely reworked "Beat Goes On."
Comparably, the Timbaland tracks (with the aid of sidekicks Danja and JT) are more by-the-numbers. However, Timbaland's production is well-showcased on "Miles Away," the album's most poignant track. It's also one of the few tracks where Madonna really comes to the forefront. The rest of the Timbo tracks- "4 Minutes," "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You," "Dance 2night," "Voices" - are all solid even if a little predictable production-wise. It's still apparent that Madonna pushed him for more than he has been doing with other pop stars post- Loose.
The fact that I speak mostly of the production sort of highlights that Hard Candy is very much producer-driven. We get a fair amount of Madonna here but, in truth, the album is aptly named once one considers its focus. This is Madonna's least introspective album since her debut and it sounds like it pays homage to that album and era.
In the end, I think this is a good but not a great album. It's on an equal footing to Confessions and, in many ways, works as a logical progression. COAD is a yin to Candy's yang. The former is a flowing Euro-styled house disco album while the latter is stomping American-produced throwback dance. It's clear Madonna wanted to prove she can re-captivate the U.S. market and push the uber-producers she chose. I do wish she would have reigned them in a smidge more but I'm still relatively pleased with this effort.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: ariesjow,
@ "She's Not Me."
