Before anyone asks why couldn't I have put this in the MJB thread...this really isn't a discussion about MJB.
And if anyone can offer legitimate alternatives to the thread question, it'll turn into a general discussion overall.
In retrospect, "What's The 411?" is influential in regards to what it did for the remix. After that album, Diddy & Co. pretty much went crazy with the rap/sung collaboration, which became standard and remains prevalent today.
In addition to pioneering the rapper/singer hybrid, "What's The 411?" single-handedly became a blueprint for urban music and set the standard for 90's hip hop and r&b, not only with the sample heavy sound, but also the "singing over hip hop beats" sound.
Keep in mind, this is "of all time"...so it's not limited to just modern day albums.
Albums from the 60's, 70's, 80's, etc are definitely in contention!
And before anyone starts naming albums, keep in mind that the likes of Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle, etc...have all incorporated much of Mary's sound into their own music.
Someone made a similar thread like this on AllHipHop.
I happen to disagree with that. It may be one of the most influential albums in R&B history. It's definitely not the most influential album in R&B history, not by a longshot. I think What's the 411? might be viewed as one of the most influential albums of the 90s because it introduced a new sub-genre. However, you have albums by Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Lauryn Hill and Aretha that were far more critically received and still is today.
So, I would say, "no." However, What's the 411? is definitely a classic that I still listen to today.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: musicluva123,
Can you name one (or more) albums that you think is/are more influential?
When I made this thread, I had an idea to put emphasis on the rap/sung collaboration and the hip hop sound, which is pretty much the face of popular music today.
Isn't The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill more critically hailed than What's the 411? I would say that Lauryn Hill album is much more influential than that Mary album, despite Lauryn Hill using the Hip Hop Soul sound in her material.
Originally posted by musicluva123: Janet's Control is a very influential R&B album.
Isn't The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill more critically hailed than What's the 411? I would say that Lauryn Hill album is much more influential than that Mary album, despite Lauryn Hill using the Hip Hop Soul sound in her material.
Not saying that I agree or disagree with you, but where exactly do you see the "Miseducation" influence within the r&b realm? Can you name artists and/or albums?
If anything, those who were influenced by that Lauryn album, were also influenced by the Mary album...which would be due to the Mary influence on Lauryn.
Originally posted by musicluva123: Janet's Control is a very influential R&B album.
Isn't The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill more critically hailed than What's the 411? I would say that Lauryn Hill album is much more influential than that Mary album, despite Lauryn Hill using the Hip Hop Soul sound in her material.
Not saying that I agree or disagree with you, but where exactly do you see the "Miseducation" influence within the r&b realm? Can you name artists and/or albums?
If anything, those who were influenced by that Lauryn album, were also influenced by the Mary album...which would be due to the Mary influence on Lauryn.
If that makes any sense. lol
It's like a pattern.
I don't know how to explain it, but The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is highly regarded as one of the most influential albums, moreso than What's the 411? I know artists like Melanie Fiona, Alicia Keys, Jazmine Sullivan and even many Hip Hop/Rap artists mention that album quite often. Lauryn Hill's album was a mixture of contemporary R&B, Hip Hop, Neo-Soul and Pop. What's the 411? only introduced the fusion of Hip Hop and R&B.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: musicluva123,
It would be interesting to do some sort of poll among those in the industry as to which album, "What's the 411" or "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" has been more influential. It just may be my perception, but I remember "The Miseducation" being an almost phenomena when it was released...they hype and praise lauded on it was almost unheard of. I really don't remember the same sort of enthusiasm for "What's the 411" when in was released. Overall, I think Mary has been the more influential artist because she has released more material, but I definitely think it is debatable which album had the most impact and influence.
Also, am I completely off base thinking "Thriller" is perhaps the most influential album in R&B History?
Posts: 10040 | Location: Iowa | Registered: June 09, 2005
Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
Even if "The Miseducation" was more well received than "What's the 411?", Lauryn's album is still essentially a hip hop soul album, in terms of sound...which would complement the Mary influence.
In essence, any artist you can mention within the urban realm (including Lauryn Hill) has taken formula from Mary's album...
Both Miseducation and What's the 411? are flawless albums from top to bottom.
Prince made some pretty influential albums: Purple Rain (just listen to all of the cloned songs) and Sign 'O The Times. He could be definitely a contender.
Originally posted by musicluva123: I know one thing:
Both Miseducation and What's the 411? are flawless albums from top to bottom.
Prince made some pretty influential albums: Purple Rain (just listen to all of the cloned songs) and Sign 'O The Times. He could be definitely a contender.
Originally posted by Be: Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
Even if "The Miseducation" was more well received than "What's the 411?", Lauryn's album is still essentially a hip hop soul album, in terms of sound...which would complement the Mary influence.
In essence, any artist you can mention within the urban realm (including Lauryn Hill) has taken formula from Mary's album...
(I'm just playing devil's advocate here, BTW).
That sound wasn't necessarily Mary's, though. Plus, that sound was influenced by Hip Hop, Soul, and New Jack Swing sound. And I don't think Miseducation was viewed as a Hip Hop Soul album. Like I said earlier, her album was probably more universal, blending many sounds. I think Mary and Lauryn both took sounds and made them their own and produced timeless R&B albums.
Originally posted by Be: Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
Even if "The Miseducation" was more well received than "What's the 411?", Lauryn's album is still essentially a hip hop soul album, in terms of sound...which would complement the Mary influence.
In essence, any artist you can mention within the urban realm (including Lauryn Hill) has taken formula from Mary's album...
(I'm just playing devil's advocate here, BTW).
That sound wasn't necessarily Mary's, though. Plus, that sound was influenced by Hip Hop, Soul, and New Jack Swing sound. And I don't think Miseducation was viewed as a Hip Hop Soul album. Like I said earlier, her album was probably more universal, blending many sounds. I think Mary and Lauryn both took sounds and made them their own and produced timeless R&B albums.
Well what's your thoughts on "What's The 411?" popularizing the remix...which pretty much became a trend (rappers and singers together on a track), after that album?
Let's be honest...Diddy knew he did something revolutionary...and everyone else pretty much followed suit.
Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
No. Good point.
But I think being highly lauded can certainly lead an album to being extremely influential. It is only natural when a specific type of album gets tons of attention and critical acclaim, that others come along and trying to copy and/or expand the sound. Look at how many angry female rockers came onto the scene after "Jagged Little Pill's" success.
Posts: 10040 | Location: Iowa | Registered: June 09, 2005
Originally posted by Be: Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
Even if "The Miseducation" was more well received than "What's the 411?", Lauryn's album is still essentially a hip hop soul album, in terms of sound...which would complement the Mary influence.
In essence, any artist you can mention within the urban realm (including Lauryn Hill) has taken formula from Mary's album...
(I'm just playing devil's advocate here, BTW).
That sound wasn't necessarily Mary's, though. Plus, that sound was influenced by Hip Hop, Soul, and New Jack Swing sound. And I don't think Miseducation was viewed as a Hip Hop Soul album. Like I said earlier, her album was probably more universal, blending many sounds. I think Mary and Lauryn both took sounds and made them their own and produced timeless R&B albums.
Well what's your thoughts on "What's The 411?" popularizing the remix...which pretty much became a trend (rappers and singers together on a track), after that album?
Let's be honest...Diddy knew he did something revolutionary...and everyone else pretty much followed suit.
I love how Diddy took so much credit for creating that sound. It's probably why so many people don't like him or get down with him much, including Mary. But that's another story for another time. LOL
To answer your other question, I always thought the remix thing was somewhat popular before that era, with the whole Aerosmith and Run DMC thing. I remember someone saying Mariah started or popularized the remix thing with rappers or something, which I never found to be true.
I remember someone saying Mariah started or popularized the remix thing with rappers or something, which I never found to be true.
Before her remix of "Fantasy" with O.D.B, Mariah was mainly known as a Pop/A.C artist. I think she can get some credit (certainly not all of it) for the trend sole female pop singers collaborating with rappers in remixes that exploded shortly after she did the "Fantasy" remix.
Posts: 10040 | Location: Iowa | Registered: June 09, 2005
I remember someone saying Mariah started or popularized the remix thing with rappers or something, which I never found to be true.
Before her remix of "Fantasy" with O.D.B, Mariah was mainly known as a Pop/A.C artist. I think she can get some credit (certainly not all of it) for the trend sole female pop singers collaborating with rappers in remixes that exploded shortly after she did the "Fantasy" remix.
Yes, maybe so. But I remember Whitney Houston doing that with Monie Love, remixing "My Name Is Not Susan." I personally think Aerosmith and Run DMC did something more revolutionary with the whole Rap/Sung collabo thing. I don't understand why they don't get as much credit as others.
Originally posted by Be: Is being highly lauded the same thing as being influential, though?
Even if "The Miseducation" was more well received than "What's the 411?", Lauryn's album is still essentially a hip hop soul album, in terms of sound...which would complement the Mary influence.
In essence, any artist you can mention within the urban realm (including Lauryn Hill) has taken formula from Mary's album...
(I'm just playing devil's advocate here, BTW).
That sound wasn't necessarily Mary's, though. Plus, that sound was influenced by Hip Hop, Soul, and New Jack Swing sound. And I don't think Miseducation was viewed as a Hip Hop Soul album. Like I said earlier, her album was probably more universal, blending many sounds. I think Mary and Lauryn both took sounds and made them their own and produced timeless R&B albums.
Well what's your thoughts on "What's The 411?" popularizing the remix...which pretty much became a trend (rappers and singers together on a track), after that album?
Let's be honest...Diddy knew he did something revolutionary...and everyone else pretty much followed suit.
I love how Diddy took so much credit for creating that sound. It's probably why so many people don't like him or get down with him much, including Mary. But that's another story for another time. LOL
To answer your other question, I always thought the remix thing was somewhat popular before that era, with the whole Aerosmith and Run DMC thing. I remember someone saying Mariah started or popularized the remix thing with rappers or something, which I never found to be true.
I think in order to take credit for "popularizing" something, thus making it big, it would have to become a trend soon after.
After "What's The 411?" in which Mary collaborated with Biggie, Grand Puba, etc...you had Mary/Meth, Jay/Mary, SWV/ Wu-Tang, Faith/Biggie, Total/Biggie, Mariah/ODB, Brandy/MC Lyte, Aaliyah/Timbaland, etc...in which the remix formula became a trend.
Diddy helped re-define it...
I don't know, but I'm looking at all of the collabo's that occured between singers/rappers shortly after the Mary album. It's the same formula that Murder Inc. followed for Ashanti and J. Lo's singles, as well.
After Aerosmith, I don't remember there being an over-abundance of artists doing the collaboration.
