I agree completely with that quote, justified221.

My reason for bringing up HOW Kelly got into the business was because restless&wild claimed that Beyonce is only in it for the money, while Kelly is in it for credibility. That's why I mentioned "American Idol." I don't think it's a bad way to get noticed at all. As I've said before, I'm a big fan of Fantasia & Carrie, and both of them won as well.

But yes, I brought up her "Idol" victory because I don't think it's fair to malign and belittle one artist because they also understand the business aspect of the music industry. Beyonce IS NOT the only artist who has turned her name and musical success into a business. Madonna, 50 Cent, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Jennifer Lopez, Diddy, etc. have all done the exact same thing. Does that mean that they don't truly love what they do and have a passion for music as an art form? No. It just means that they also have a full understanding of exactly how the industry works.

I agree with you guys, Kelly did lots of work to try to start her career, when it wasn't working out she tried out for Idol. And going through Idol is NOT easy. If she had a father to get her all these deals and appearences for her I'm sure she wouldn't have had to even try out for Idol.

quote:

Originally posted by MrTalented:
I agree completely with that quote, justified221.

My reason for bringing up HOW Kelly got into the business was because restless&wild claimed that Beyonce is only in it for the money, while Kelly is in it for credibility. That's why I mentioned "American Idol." I don't think it's a bad way to get noticed at all. As I've said before, I'm a big fan of Fantasia & Carrie, and both of them won as well.

But yes, I brought up her "Idol" victory because I don't think it's fair to malign and belittle one artist because they also understand the business aspect of the music industry. Beyonce IS NOT the only artist who has turned her name and musical success into a business. Madonna, 50 Cent, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, Jennifer Lopez, Diddy, etc. have all done the exact same thing. Does that mean that they don't truly love what they do and have a passion for music as an art form? No. It just means that they also have a full understanding of exactly how the industry works.

Before this gets argued, the quote doesn't mean or she didn't mean to say that she does not care about the people who got her to where she is in the industry. Basically, there's many outlets or ways to get in the industry. Let's face it. It's one difficult industry to crack. Therefore a lot of these artists have difficulty trying to make it. Singing contests, online contests, lounge singing, sending demo tapes, connections, and other various things are all outlets. It's so hard to make it so for people to judge an artist for going on American Idol for the money. That's pure speculation. Because if that's the case, then the entire music industry is in it for the money. One can say, oooh, they're selling records and going on tour so they can earn money. Please. This is ridiculous. And I'm sorry. Who doesn't need money? To pay bills? To survive? I hate it when people go on speculation. It's complete fallacy.

There's a difference between singers and artists. People go into the music industry, whether it be Paris Hilton or Melissa Ethridge, Cassie or Whitney Houston, all these people go into music because they believe they have a talent or a voice or artistry that will make them have a long career. Clearly, Melissa and Whitney (just examples) have long music careers because they proved they have talent and the public responded to it. Now Cassie and Paris do not have music careers because they don't have talent, and the public obviously didn't respond to this no talent. It's how you stay in the industry. And I don't think that you would have a long lasting career if you don't have the talent. I'm sure there are great talents out there who don't get signed, who's not heard or even make it. It's because of the cut-throat industry where it's difficult to really make it. We hear songs on the radio, amazing songs, and some artists are heard because of these songs. But you cannot spend your entire career relying on good writers, good auto-tune producers to support your career. Therefore they succumb to being one hit wonders or current club banging songs that in ten years the song will be remembered but the artist won't.

Going back to Kelly Clarkson. It's just sad there's such a thing as crab mentality. People always love bringing those people high up there down. This woman just wants to make music, music that's heard and what better way than to do it on a global platform in the way of being signed in a big label. Sadly, there's disputes, there's disagreements. She gets pigeonholed. When she fights back, when she gives an opinion. She automatically becomes criticized. People give her sh*t for joining a talent show. I don't get it. Like someone pointed out, other singers came out of Star Search. Along the line, Britney, Christina and Justin all wanted to make it in the industry and MMC was their big way of cracking the industry. Okay, people give American Idol slack for being a national karaoke singing contest. I disagree with that. Watch the show, people give their interpretation through voice and arrangement. Give them credit. I don't think Kelly Clarkson would be where she is if she's just doing karaoke, if she's plain with no originality. Look at My December, it was her Jagged Little Pill. Amazing.

I think really, being a Mariah fan as well, this comes down to the fans against fans, protecting and defending their "diva." It's a culture thing. Who's better? Barbra? Whitney? Mariah? Celine? Madonna? Janet? Britney? Christina? Beyonce? Kelly? Carrie? Leona? Rihanna? Everyone loves their diva so obviously whoever becomes more famous or more successful, everyone goes on debates. It's part of the culture of the music industry. Fans vs. fans.

I think people have gotten it confused. I'm not knocking anyone who comes off of "American Idol" at all. As I've said several times before, I'm a huge fan of Fantasia and Carrie, who both won as well.

I was simply responding to one particular post, and I explained why I mentioned "Idol."

And Fanboy, I hope you know that not everyone had a father managing them but broke into the business in other ways than "American Idol." Beyonce's path wasn't any easier because she had parental management and support.

OMG. I can't believe this whole conversation boils down to my one quote about credibilty over money. And Mr. T, that whole quote went right over your head. Like I said, read all the posts on page 7, and what led up to that quote, to understand what the hell I was talking about. Of course Kelly likes money, who doesn't.

This whole thing started over AG and Halo. I said I did not believe the rumors that were out there, saying Beyonce demanded from Tedder to have Halo, sound just like AG. What I did say to A_MD88 was that the reason WHY some people probably believe that, is because of all the sh!t Beyonce pulls with taking writing credits, for sh!t she had nothing to do with composing. And all the other crap she has done over the years. Do I have proof you asked? It's out there, it's even been on this forum plenty of times, I am not wasting my time going to search for it all. She is always pulling shady stuff. like last years Grammy's trying to get material in for noms, when it wasn't even eligible. Over and over and over, crap comes up about her. But, when I mentioned that stuff A_MD88 came running to her defense with lyrics from that stupid song:

quote:

Originally posted by A_Mb88:
"Divas getting money,
If you ain't getting money then you ain't got nothing for me

Tell me somethin' where your boss at?"

That tells me, he is saying it doesn't matter WHO you screw over or HOW you screw them, as long as you're making money. That's when I came back with my quote of with Kelly, it's credibility over money. Yes she loves money, but, she is NOT going to screw someone over to get that money. She can compose a whole song by herself. She would NOT take writing credits for making a one word change in a song.

Even last night in the POP field contenders list at the top of this forum, someone made a jab again at beyonce, saying she probably only spell checked the lyrics of Halo, to get writing credits. And A_MB88 response was:

quote:

Matthew did tell her to always get a writing credit............

So you see, to some of her stans, it doesn't matter to what extent she goes, to get those writing credits, just as long as she does, because it makes her more money. It doesn't matter to her how she gets her money, or who she screws to get it.

Then you have to come in here blasting Kelly, saying she doesn't have credibility because she came from a reality show. BIG F-N deal where she came from. She had to overcome a lot coming off Idol. She had to to earn respect, and by doing so, she paved the way for the rest of the Idols that followed. When she came off that show, everyone... critics, DJ's, most of the public, said she wouldn't last, and it won't be long before her 15 mins. are up. Through all that negativity, she felt she did have to prove to them she WAS worthy of staying, and having a viable career in this music business, and she has done just that. If she didn't, and flopped like most of the other idols. that show wouldn't even be what it is today, or maybe not even exist. By her making it, she gave the show credibilty, showing her critics that yes, that show can make a superstar. And Simon Cowell and the rest of the judges have said just that as well. Kelly gave the show credibility. And she did it with class, and didn't step on anyones toes doing it.

I also said Beyonce has enough talent that she shouldn't have to stoop to some of the sh!t she pulls, but, she still does it, and for what? To make as much money as possible for her, and her daddy. If it is her daddy telling her, like A_MB88 says, "make sure you get a writing credit honey, because that's where the bucks are" Then it's time for her to grow up. She is almost 30 years old now, and she should know what's right and wrong, and what's credible and not. And if she did, maybe she would'nt have so many haters giving her flack.

quote:

Going back to Kelly Clarkson. It's just sad there's such a thing as crab mentality. People always love bringing those people high up there down. This woman just wants to make music, music that's heard and what better way than to do it on a global platform in the way of being signed in a big label. Sadly, there's disputes, there's disagreements. She gets pigeonholed. When she fights back, when she gives an opinion. She automatically becomes criticized. People give her sh*t for joining a talent show. I don't get it. Like someone pointed out, other singers came out of Star Search. Along the line, Britney, Christina and Justin all wanted to make it in the industry and MMC was their big way of cracking the industry. Okay, people give American Idol slack for being a national karaoke singing contest. I disagree with that. Watch the show, people give their interpretation through voice and arrangement. Give them credit. I don't think Kelly Clarkson would be where she is if she's just doing karaoke, if she's plain with no originality. Look at My December, it was her Jagged Little Pill. Amazing.

I agree totally Justified. MD was another way for her to try to show she had what it took to stay in this business. She tried to show she can write, and produce an album all on her own, and why? because even after breakaway, some people still claimed it was only because she had the so called best writers and producers helping her out even though she wrote or co-wrote 6 tracks. And when I say co-wrote, it was a hell of a lot more than changing a word or two. Then she comes out with MD, she even said she knew it wasn't going to be as commerical, or probably as sussessful, but, she had to make it, for herself. She got slammed by her own label, mainly Clive Davis before it even came out. The cd still did pretty darn good considering she only had one single to promote it. With some promotion, I believe it could've done much better. So then, she gets flack from people saying she should've just stuck with the pro writers who know what they are doing, and that her head got too big. So she does what they want this time around, and she gets flack again, saying all her songs sound like someone elses. Well Gee, I wonder why that might be. Some of the same people said, she should write her own stuff, and get some originality. Hello!!!! that's what she tried to do with MD, and those same people slammed her for it. She has taken a lot of sh*t since her win. But, she is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: restless&wild,

restless&wild:

1. I NEVER said that Kelly Clarkson didn't have credibility because she came from a reality show. Cool your temp and read. Don't twist my words.

2. I read that ENTIRE page of discussion before I made my post to you, so I was already well aware of what led you to the comment. However, it doesn't change the fact that you did indeed make the comment.

3. Clearly, Kelly gave the show credibility, but that's obviously because she's the show's first winner. If Jennifer Hudson or Carrie Underwood had come first, then they'd be in the same position.

4. You may wanna stop throwing the word "stan" around, because you're no better than any of the other Mariah, Beyonce, Britney, Christina or Madonna "stans" around here. You have got to be the biggest Kelly "stan" here, so I find it odd that you've found a way to call other posters out.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,

quote:

1. I NEVER said that Kelly Clarkson didn't have credibility because she came from a reality show. Cool your temp and read. Don't twist my words.

Why not twist your words, you twist the meaning of mine. Granted, you didn't say she didn't have credibilty because she came form a reality show, but, you did say, she didn't work as hard to get to where she is today as Beyonce did:

quote:

But before you go attacking industry veterans like Beyonce, who actually had to do more than wait in line to audition for television, you might wanna remember that Kelly did not get where she is the hard way like MOST of her industry peers. Beyonce did it the old-fashioned way, so yes, I am a bit irate that one of you would post that garbage about Beyonce when she actually WORKED to get where she is

quote:

quote:

4. You may wanna stop throwing the word "stan" around, because you're no better than any of the other Mariah, Beyonce, Britney, Christina or Madonna "stans" around here. You have got to be the biggest Kelly "stan" here, so I find it odd that you've found a way to call other posters out.

Yup, I probably am the biggest Kelly stan here, but, I don't go in other artists threads to bash them, and tout all Kellys accomplishments in there. I keep it here, or in a general discussion.


I NEVER once called YOU a Beyonce stan, who I did call a stan was A_MB88, and he is. and not just here. On other general music sites out there as well. He goes as far as trying to rally troops that may say crap about Beyonce, to sign up for different forums, just so they can defend their girl. Want an example, because he even tells posters to come here to Gold Derby and sign up to stop the haters, well, even if you don't, I'm going to give you one.

ATRL forum

and this is what the stan has to say:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo_Mb88

OK EVERYONE POST SITES THAT ATTACK BEYONCE AND WE WILL MAKE ACCOUNTS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO USE.

We have
-ATRL
-Youtube
-Music Pulse
-GoldDerby (I'm already a member there, NOT GIVING YOU MY ACCOUNT INFO, but we can use more stans)
-Twitter


WHAT ELSE?

In response to this posted by another stan:

quote:

In my bored times, as I'm strolling thru different threads of BWBoard, on Twitter, blogs, etc. I've come across some haters that need to be "slayed." Why pay them attention.? Beyonce WANTS us to "check the haters". Come here, in the STAN SLAY Headquarters for any new missions. Post links to twitter pages/updates, members/posts of the board, youtube videos, etc. Our stan armor is always on & ready for war.

FIRST MISSION; COMING SOON.

So, give me a break, Beyonce has a lot of stans out there, far more than Kelly. Yes, Kelly has them, but, not to the point of your precious Beyonce. It's those people that drive the haters......well that, and she's a crook when it comes to stealing song credits But, you don't see me going in Beyonces thread and starting sh!t about it. So go back to her thread, and do all your worshipping, and touting there.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: restless&wild,

quote:

Originally posted by MrTalented:
restless&wild:

3. Clearly, Kelly gave the show credibility, but that's obviously because she's the show's first winner. If Jennifer Hudson or Carrie Underwood had come first, then they'd be in the same position.

Actually, this point can never be proven because who knows what would have happened with their albums if they were the first winner. In fact, I'd wager a guess that Fantasia winning wouldn't have done much in the way of commercial credibility as she isn't moving mountains sales-wise.

Kelly Clarkson didn't give the show credibility because she was the show's first winner. She gave the show credibility by making quality pop albums and churning out legitimate hits (I'm sure there were more than a few who thought she would be done after "A Moment Like This"). Clarkson was also the first contestant/winner to win a major industry award (the two Grammys). It was at that point when people knew American Idol was more than just a talent competition with pretty good karaoke singers.

Can everyone PLEASE just take a chill pill? Every time I see something new in this thread it's always about you guys arguing your damn opinions. Perhaps you guys should make a separate thread for that cause as far as I know this is a thread about what's going on in Kelly's career.

^ And that's what we're discussing...

quote:

Originally posted by musicluva123:
^ And that's what we're discussing...

All I see is a whole lot of arguing and pointing fingers.

AG is doing great on HOT AC. It's taking off faster there than Pop, but, hopefully Pop comes around closer to the add date on the 11th.

On Hot AC yesterday

lw TW Artist Title TW lw Move Aud/mill

98 49 KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone 143 28 115 0.613

Today:

82 45 KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone 167 38 129 0.716


Her schedule is clear this week until August 7th. I'm hoping she goes on SYTYCD this week, the finals are Aug. 5th and 6th, and she could sing AG, seeing as it's the goodbye song for the girls.


How's that ying?


.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: restless&wild,

quote:

Originally posted by restless&wild:

quote:

1. I NEVER said that Kelly Clarkson didn't have credibility because she came from a reality show. Cool your temp and read. Don't twist my words.

Why not twist your words, you twist the meaning of mine. Granted, you didn't say she didn't have credibilty because she came form a reality show, but, you did say, she didn't work as hard to get to where she is today as Beyonce did:

quote:

But before you go attacking industry veterans like Beyonce, who actually had to do more than wait in line to audition for television, you might wanna remember that Kelly did not get where she is the hard way like MOST of her industry peers. Beyonce did it the old-fashioned way, so yes, I am a bit irate that one of you would post that garbage about Beyonce when she actually WORKED to get where she is

quote:

quote:

4. You may wanna stop throwing the word "stan" around, because you're no better than any of the other Mariah, Beyonce, Britney, Christina or Madonna "stans" around here. You have got to be the biggest Kelly "stan" here, so I find it odd that you've found a way to call other posters out.

Yup, I probably am the biggest Kelly stan here, but, I don't go in other artists threads to bash them, and tout all Kellys accomplishments in there. I keep it here, or in a general discussion.


I NEVER once called YOU a Beyonce stan, who I did call a stan was A_MB88, and he is. and not just here. On other general music sites out there as well. He goes as far as trying to rally troops that may say crap about Beyonce, to sign up for different forums, just so they can defend their girl. Want an example, because he even tells posters to come here to Gold Derby and sign up to stop the haters, well, even if you don't, I'm going to give you one.

ATRL forum

and this is what the stan has to say:

quote:

Originally posted by Alfredo_Mb88

OK EVERYONE POST SITES THAT ATTACK BEYONCE AND WE WILL MAKE ACCOUNTS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO USE.

We have
-ATRL
-Youtube
-Music Pulse
-GoldDerby (I'm already a member there, NOT GIVING YOU MY ACCOUNT INFO, but we can use more stans)
-Twitter


WHAT ELSE?

In response to this posted by another stan:

quote:

In my bored times, as I'm strolling thru different threads of BWBoard, on Twitter, blogs, etc. I've come across some haters that need to be "slayed." Why pay them attention.? Beyonce WANTS us to "check the haters". Come here, in the STAN SLAY Headquarters for any new missions. Post links to twitter pages/updates, members/posts of the board, youtube videos, etc. Our stan armor is always on & ready for war.

FIRST MISSION; COMING SOON.

So, give me a break, Beyonce has a lot of stans out there, far more than Kelly. Yes, Kelly has them, but, not to the point of your precious Beyonce. It's those people that drive the haters......well that, and she's a crook when it comes to stealing song credits But, you don't see me going in Beyonces thread and starting sh!t about it. So go back to her thread, and do all your worshipping, and touting there.

Oh that was a fun thread/night at the BWBoard.

How did it get to ATRL?

The bold part was by whats their name....I can't remember who it was, but anyways too bad it didn't go that far (only 20 pages or so) we could of had so much fun. We had to argue for who made the accounts them whores, we couldn't even between Bey stans get this organized.

So what's everybodies main point that they're trying to make?

quote:

Originally posted by A_Mb88:
So what's everybodies main point that they're trying to make?

hmmm, let me see

1. You're an A$$

2. Mr T. stuck his nose where it didn't belong and got burned

3. Kelly is more talented than Beyonce

yup, that about sums it up.



I tried ying,

restless&wild, you may wanna hop off that damn high horse of yours.

What do you mean I stuck my nose where it didn't "belong"? Did you forget that this is what they call a "messageboard"? Just in case your collection of Kelly Clarkson paraphernalia crashed on your head and caused you amnesia, let me remind you of what it means: it means that I can comment ANYWHERE I want, and say WHATEVER I please, WHENEVER I feel like it.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that you have a monopoly over this discussion thread, but you don't. Therefore, you have no right to say that ANYBODY stuck their nose where it doesn't belong. You need to learn fast that people who use this board can comment wherever they please. There's no "do not enter" thread on the Grammy forum.

And please tell me how I got "burned"? I'm really interested to know because I think I made my point pretty clear, cut and dry. Are you somehow insinuating that you told me off or something? Did I miss it somewhere? 'Cause I ain't the one you wanna argue with, and you damn sure didn't burn a damn thing.

your funny Mr T. I knew you'd be back after that comment. Now, where did I say you didn't have the right to come in this thread? Huh? where? I didn't. There you go putting words in my mouth again. I said you stuck your nose where it didn't belong. You can come in here anytime you'd like, the more the merrier.

And you're not the one I want to argue with? Why, you gonna come beat me up? oh o.k. you got me scared now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: restless&wild,

I put words in your mouth? Sure. You said I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. What exactly does that mean? Or are you backtracking?

This argument is done. The only reason I commented in the first place was because I read most of these posts and the Beyonce bashing in conjunction to the "Halo"/"Already Gone" situation had gotten ridiculous. And I stand by everything I said.

As for Kelly being more talented, that's your opinion and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't like debating who is better than whom because it's just two conflicting opinions. One isn't more important than the other, so arguing on such grounds leads nowhere. However, I will say that one has accomplished things that the other can only dream about & will probably never accomplish, and has made music that has impacted more than just one field/genre of listeners.

The end.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrTalented,